off the beaten path

[Jayson_Cohen]

Otto, re: Lahaye Champagne Grand Cru Brut Nature Le Jardin de la Grosse Pierre. I don’t know how long he has been making it. But the Aubrys have been making their blends from a multitude of grape varieties for at least a couple decades including using a lot of Arbanne, Petit Meslier, and Pinot Blanc. They used to use all 7 allowed varieties in a single wine in the ‘90s but it’s not clear to me they still do.

[Jay_Miller]

Otto, re: Lahaye Champagne Grand Cru Brut Nature Le Jardin de la Grosse Pierre. I don’t know how long he has been making it. But the Aubrys have been making their blends from a multitude of grape varieties for at least a couple decades including using a lot of Arbanne, Petit Meslier, and Pinot Blanc. They used to use all 7 allowed varieties in a single wine in the ‘90s but it’s not clear to me they still do.

Yes, but the LJdlGP has Arbanne, Chardonnay, Chasselas, Gros Plant, Petite Meslier, Pinot Blanc, Pinot Meunier, Pinot Noir, and Teinturier

[Jason_T]

I have no issue with someone new-ish to the board considering Musar ‘off the beaten path’. Lots of people (probably most) who aren’t as geeky as us haven’t heard of it.

Not ‘off the beaten path’ in terms of location, but certainly a unique style of wine are Lopez de Heredia’s whites. Made in an oxidative style, these are quite different from other whites, even many other Spanish whites.

[Otto_Forsberg]

Otto, re: Lahaye Champagne Grand Cru Brut Nature Le Jardin de la Grosse Pierre. I don’t know how long he has been making it. But the Aubrys have been making their blends from a multitude of grape varieties for at least a couple decades including using a lot of Arbanne, Petit Meslier, and Pinot Blanc. They used to use all 7 allowed varieties in a single wine in the ‘90s but it’s not clear to me they still do.

Yes, there are several of those, for example Laherte’s Les 7 as well. And Drappier’s Quattuor Blanc de Quatre Blancs is made with all the four white permitted varieties. I’ve also had numerous micro-cuvée Champagnes made from the four lesser permitted varieties, including monovarietal Champagnes from all the four different varieties.

[Dav3_Dyr0ff]

in the “even Otto and Tom Hill have never tried this” vein.

Are there such wines?

Just joking.

NV Jean Bourdy Galant des Abbesses - Technically not a wine, but instead probably the most extraordinary mistelle in the world. The base wine is unfermented Savagnin from Château-Chalon, which is cooked for one whole day with 25 different spices, letting the juice concentrate and infuse it with the spice flavors. After the cooking the juice is fortified with Marc de Franche-Comté, resulting in a Macvin that is 2/3 juice and 1/3 Marc. Then it is aged for a minimum of 5 years in oak barrels. You just simply lack the words to describe the smell of this “wine”, let alone its taste.

I actually have a bottle of this, being attracted to things off the beaten path, but I only bought one and I’ve been a bit at a loss on how to approach it. But since you’re here -

Does this age like a dessert wine or is this more like a liquor that isn’t going to change much (for better or worse) in the bottle?

Is this something best drunk by itself or with a savory course (if so, what?) or a sweet course (if so, what?)?

How large would a “pour” of this be? More similar to the size of a pour/glass of table wine, dessert wine, or marc/grappa/brandy?

Thanks for any guidance!

Cheers,

Dave

[AD_Northup]

Probably best to follow the OP’s guidance on what he means by the term for purposes of this thread. Since he gave Musar, Friuli, and Recioto as examples of what he means, we should probably go with that. I think the wines mentioned in the responses are in that vein, even if not in the “even Otto and Tom Hill have never tried this” vein.

The only wine in my collection that might be new to Otto and Tom:

Certainly should qualify as “off the beaten path”, though not sure if I could recommend…

[Dav3_Dyr0ff]

Certainly should qualify as “off the beaten path”, though not sure if I could recommend…

What part of “finest” do you not understand?

[AD_Northup]

Certainly should qualify as “off the beaten path”, though not sure if I could recommend…

What part of “finest” do you not understand?

Leaned into the “unique” side instead

[Jayson_Cohen]

Some more from Champagne:

Rosé de Riceys still wines. Like from Olivier Horiot.

Coteaux Champenois Blanc. Like from Bereche.
—————————
A lot of wines from Clos Roche Blanche and successors also fit. L’Arpent Rouge from Pineau D’Aunis and the old vines Cot being among the best from back in the day.

[AD_Northup]

in the “even Otto and Tom Hill have never tried this” vein.

NV Jacques Lassaigne Champagne Le Flacon De L’Incertitude - an orange Champagne. I guess that says enough. Terrific stuff.

Going to look for this one, thanks for the recommendation.

[Otto_Forsberg]

I actually have a bottle of this, being attracted to things off the beaten path, but I only bought one and I’ve been a bit at a loss on how to approach it. But since you’re here -

Does this age like a dessert wine or is this more like a liquor that isn’t going to change much (for better or worse) in the bottle?

Is this something best drunk by itself or with a savory course (if so, what?) or a sweet course (if so, what?)?

How large would a “pour” of this be? More similar to the size of a pour/glass of table wine, dessert wine, or marc/grappa/brandy?

Thanks for any guidance!

Dave

Omg wow! That is definitely going to be a unique experience! Not sure if you’re gonna like it, since it is so different to anything else. However, I loved every drop of it.

It is basically a Vermouth of sorts, since it is wine infused with herbs and whatnot. However, it drinks like a Madeira or Tawny Port or some other fortified wine. It is closest to Macvin of Jura, or Pineau des Charentes or Floc de Gascogne - only a super premium version.

I guess the best way to consume a bottle would be sharing it with open-minded wine aficionados. If having a meal, it would be probably a digestive after the desserts. While technically the wine could perform as a dessert wine, it is so crazy it will most likely overwhelm anything you’d try to pair it with. Dessert wine pours.

I guess the best way to explain how the wine is like is to just copypaste my TN here:

NV Jean Bourdy Galant des Abbesses - France, Jura, Côtes du Jura (4.2.2014)
Orange, somewhat coppery clear color. The first sniff of this wine makes me just burst out laughing and my first note about the aroma in my notebook is “I have no idea what this smells of ”. I mean, the nose is completely insane in its complexity and it smells unlike anything remotely related to wine. It is incredibly alien, yet so very attractive with its intermingling, constantly evolving nuances. I can pick up vague hints of orange peel, coriander seed, clove, honey, chinotto (think of Campari), cinnamon, pet shop, saw dust, mulled wine… and then there are a plethora of aromas that I just can’t pick out. It’s like smelling a magical concotion that is best described as bottled spirit of Christmas from some fantasy land. And no matter how ridiculous the nose is in its complexity, the palate follows it verbatim. Writing a tasting note on this wine is like translating a language you have never heard of before. I’m just dumbfounded. The wine is very rich, sweet and full-bodied on the mouth, with still good freshness and bright acidity, probably thanks to Savagnin. There are infinitely complex flavors that include, but are not limited to maple syrup, heather honey, aromatic root vegetables, beeswax, thyme, blood orange marmalade, licorice and clove. The sweetness of the wine feels remarkably well-balanced with the spices and the acidity. The finish is as complex as the midpalate, but it feels completely different with less sweet flavors of bitter orange peel, steely minerality, roasted nuts, mulled wine, raisins, honey, wild flowers, some bitter spices, a little lemon juice and a hint of vegetal greenness. The aftertaste is infinitely long, sweet, refreshing and almost kaleidoscopic how it changes all the time.

This is probably the most difficult wine I have ever tried to write a tasting note of - every once in a while you realize how limited your vocabulary is when trying to convey tastes and aromas. Furthermore, you really have to concentrate on writing the tasting notes, because otherwise this “wine” gets you carried away completely, in an instant. This is one of the most captivating alcoholic beverages I have ever tasted and it is best described as a magical elixir from an imagined fantasy world. I’m not sure if this wine can surprise me as profoundly as it did now if I ever will taste it again, as I now know what to expect. However, because this was so unique and so memorable an experience, I have no qualms about awarding the wine full 100 points. For the fans of sweet and fortified wines, this is truly a bottle worth seeking out. As the user “tooch” put so well, “the hype is real”.

Ex-cellar price is 23€, but most often the wine is found at 3-4 times the price.
(100 pts.)
Posted from CellarTracker

The only wine in my collection that might be new to Otto and Tom:

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Certainly should qualify as “off the beaten path”, though not sure if I could recommend…

Qualifies at least from my part - although I’ve had sweet red wine from Uganda.

[Joseph_Grassa]

in the “even Otto and Tom Hill have never tried this” vein.

…
1994 Girolamo Dorigo Colli Pignolo di Buttrio - This would be Friuli’s answer to Langhe’s Barolo/Barbaresco, Tuscany’s Brunello, Campania’s Taurasi and Umbria’s Sagrantino - only if anybody would’ve heard of it. Outrageously structured with remarkable power, acidity and tannins. Since the wines are rather forbidding in their youth (just like Nebbiolo, Aglianico and Sagrantino), most producers have ceased to farm Pignolo and most of the remaining producers tend to make their Pignolos now in this soft and sweet semi-appassimento style that tries to compete with the Amarone wines from the neighboring Veneto. Great Pignolos are very difficult to come by nowadays…

great info. I was actually trying to find a good Pignolo a few months ago and could not determine what to buy. Anything even somewhat accessible that you would recommend?

[Dav3_Dyr0ff]

However, because this was so unique and so memorable an experience, I have no qualms about awarding the wine full 100 points. For the fans of sweet and fortified wines, this is truly a bottle worth seeking out. As the user “tooch” put so well, “the hype is real”.

Wow - what a note! Thanks for that. If Garagiste had used your TN instead of the usual JR hype in the offering e-mail a few years ago when I bought this, I’d have gone for a case instead of one bottle!

Last question - what do you recommend for serving temperature?

[Joseph_Grassa]

I have no issue with someone new-ish to the board considering Musar ‘off the beaten path’. Lots of people (probably most) who aren’t as geeky as us haven’t heard of it.

Not ‘off the beaten path’ in terms of location, but certainly a unique style of wine are Lopez de Heredia’s whites. Made in an oxidative style, these are quite different from other whites, even many other Spanish whites.

Interesting. I love their reds, never had their whites. Outside of Sauternes/ Barsac I drink very little white, but I’m looking to keep experimenting. Thanks for the tip!

[Otto_Forsberg]

great info. I was actually trying to find a good Pignolo a few months ago and could not determine what to buy. Anything even somewhat accessible that you would recommend?

Not really. From what I’ve tasted Pignolo’s point is to be anything but accessible (just like its brother in arms, Tazzelenghe - another tough an tannic variety from Friuli). I loathe the soft, jammy, “accessible” style they make nowadays. I guess there must still be some old-school producers making traditionalist Pignolo, but haven’t come across with any.

However, because this was so unique and so memorable an experience, I have no qualms about awarding the wine full 100 points. For the fans of sweet and fortified wines, this is truly a bottle worth seeking out. As the user “tooch” put so well, “the hype is real”.

Wow - what a note! Thanks for that. If Garagiste had used your TN instead of the usual JR hype in the offering e-mail a few years ago when I bought this, I’d have gone for a case instead of one bottle!

Last question - what do you recommend for serving temperature?

Basically same with every wine (that don’t need to be served straight from the fridge); cellar temp or slightly cooler. Most wines really don’t need to be cooler than that, and if the wine needs to be warmer - or if you prefer wines warmer - you can always let it wait for a bit. It’ll get there. Especially since smaller dessert wine pours warm up faster than full pours.

I remember the tasting even where I tasted that particular wine. It seemed half the people just didn’t “get” the wine at all and half the people went just nuts after tasting it. I suppose you can guess to which camp I belonged to?

[Joseph_Grassa]

great info. I was actually trying to find a good Pignolo a few months ago and could not determine what to buy. Anything even somewhat accessible that you would recommend?

Not really. From what I’ve tasted Pignolo’s point is to be anything but accessible (just like its brother in arms, Tazzelenghe - another tough an tannic variety from Friuli). I loathe the soft, jammy, “accessible” style they make nowadays. I guess there must still be some old-school producers making traditionalist Pignolo, but haven’t come across with any.

No problem with that. I actually mean accessible as in something I could get a hold of. Should I be looking for anything before some cutoff? Thanks again.

[Brent_C_l_a_y_t_o_n]

Ruche was mentioned in the bargain Nebbiolo thread. That’s a good one.
Have you explored much from Campania, Marche, Calabria and Puglia?

I represent some of these but:
Vestini Campagnano Terre del Volturno–in the northern hills of Campania, wines are focused on the ancient varieties of Pallagrello Nero, Casavecchia & Pallagrello Bianco
Lacrima di Morro di Alba (grape) I represent Lucchetti, and I used to sell Velenosi. Also look for the region’s unique dessert wine Vini Viscole, made with a local variety of tart cherries added to the Lacrima.
Statti Gaglioppo or any Ciro from Calabria
Puglia-Negroamaro, Susumaniello (varieties) I represent a winery called Schola Sarmenti. Primitivo is a little more common in the region.
Sicily-Perricone (red) Grillo & Cataratto (white)

As others mentioned, the wines you discussed in your OP aren’t necessarily considered ‘off the beaten path’ for most…

I’m a huge fan of Negroamaro. 1.8% of my collection is Negroamaro from Puglia about probably about 4% of what I drink due to the price point.

Never had a few others you mentioned. Any Perricone, or Vini Viscole you could recommend?

Joseph,

Vini Viscole is specific to the Marche so start with the producers I mentioned, Velenosi and Lucchetti. Lucchetti has a couple of different tiers of Lacrima if you are intersted in the dry table wines.

I represent Caruso e Minini, located in Marsala. they have a natural/organic line that includes Cataratto and Grillo for white and Perricone and Nero d’Avola for red.

[Dennis_Borczon]

Ok Otto, dazzle me with your knowledge of Terra Madre Plavac Mali…

Seriously Croatia is a great hunting ground for really inexpensive and delicious wines. Only one major improter here in the US, but the whites with seafood are delicious, and cheap!

[Brent_C_l_a_y_t_o_n]

I don’t know enough about it but there is a bunch of quality Eastern European stuff currently available on the east coast if you snoop around.

[Tomas_Costa]

Any thoughts on Armenian wines? I heard a positive report from a critic I know some time ago.