NFTs in the Wine World

[John_Morris]

Imagine if you can get a bottle of the Prisoner and you know exactly who has owned it for thirty years. What price for such peace of mind?

[Chris_Crutchfield]

But Mondavi is owned by Constellation, right? And they sold off some of their lower end properties supposedly to play in the higher end market. They kept the high end stuff - Meiomi, the Prisoner, Kim Crawford, Ruffino, and Mondavi, and OK also Schrader.

So is this how they do “high-end”? Not by making world class wine but by attaching some other artifact?

Imagine if you can get a bottle of the Prisoner and you know exactly who has owned it for thirty years. What price for such peace of mind?

Obviously, they are thinking about the margins they can get by conning people into attributing value to something valueless. Why not cash in while fools are buying ugly ape jpegs for obscene amounts of money?

[Dennis_Borczon]

NFT are largely a hustle as far as I can see, unless you turn them into some kind of currency. Maybe that is the idea. But we already have Bitcoin. Maureen Downey talks about a system she is advancing that is far more sophisticated that simply coding a serial number to a blockchain. It involves a coil embedded in a cork along with a plastic neck sleeve that has an indicator to detect if there has been any tampering with the capsule. Sounds like a far better system to guarantee authenticity than simply creating an NFT. Worth a listen…

‎UK Wine Show: Maureen Downey on Wine Fraud on Apple Podcasts

[Cameron_Hughes]

NFT are largely a hustle as far as I can see, unless you turn them into some kind of currency. Maybe that is the idea. But we already have Bitcoin. Maureen Downey talks about a system she is advancing that is far more sophisticated that simply coding a serial number to a blockchain. It involves a coil embedded in a cork along with a plastic neck sleeve that has an indicator to detect if there has been any tampering with the capsule. Sounds like a far better system to guarantee authenticity than simply creating an NFT. Worth a listen…

‎UK Wine Show: Maureen Downey on Wine Fraud on Apple Podcasts

I think you’ve hit on something here when you mention “turn them into some sort of currency”.

My understanding is that Baxus (https://www.baxus.co/home) and Blockbar (The wine and spirit marketplace of the future lies in NFTs - The Peak Magazine) are building “funds” of asset-backed NFT’s (in these cases “rare” whiskey-backed) that are collateralizable or securitizable. The idea being that most alternative assets (art, booze, other “collectibles”, etc) are neither collateralizable or securitizable by underwriters but an NFT will be.

As a side note, I can see how this might be disruptive in the auction house world insofar as their margins might be squeezed by more virtual counterparts that are simply trading platforms for NFT’s.

Like y’all, I am skeptical, but there is enough smart money speculation on Blockchain being the basis upon which the next internet will be based to pay attention.

[Keith_Levenberg]

I mean Yao Ming has been doing it. It makes sense overall to help prevent counterfeiting.

And how does it do that exactly?

From Mondavi:
“Each of the 1,966 bottles in this series comes with a unique authentication code that when scanned, brings the user to the transaction record for the corresponding NFT purchase, creating immutable proof of authenticity that will forever live on the blockchain.”

I guess this means if, 20 years from now, I buy one of these bottles from someone and scan the code, I can see that the “someone” I am buying it from is, in fact, the rightful owner. (Which they can demonstrate by producing the NFT.)

As others have apprehended, what it means is that Mondavi Corp. is trying to cash in on the latest trendy thing without understanding it & hoping nobody else understands it either… The article at the link indicates that the token is for the artwork, not the wine. You just get a bottle of wine thrown in if you buy the token from Mondavi. For obvious reasons, transferring the token doesn’t transfer the wine. So the token doesn’t actually do anything to authenticate the wine regardless what Mondavi says. The token is unique because its uniqueness is verified by the blockchain. The uniqueness of the code put on a sticker on the bottle of wine is not verified by anything, so any aspiring Rudys, who, for whatever reason, think there is some profit in counterfeiting Mondavi, can copy the code, and the copied code would be just as traceable to Mondavi and capable of “authenticating” the bottle as the original, subject only to how costly it is to print a good copy.

The page also says, “Each NFT also includes a certificate that may be redeemed for one To Kalon Vineyard® Tasting beginning from 9/30/2022 and ending 9/29/2023,” which is dumb. There is, of course, nothing to preclude Mondavi from selling a certificate that may be redeemed for one To Kalon Vineyard® Tasting without issuing an NFT. The only reason you would want to do something like this by NFT would be the smart contract functionality the blockchain can offer that can’t be accomplished just by selling a certificate - for example, instead of just giving away a certificate with the purchase of the NFT, the NFT could be coded so that every time it is sold it pays a royalty to Mondavi and issues a new To Kalon Vineyard® Tasting certificate. Or they could even make To Kalon Vineyard® itself an NFT that pays themselves royalties so if you were a producer who makes wine from To Kalon but can’t say so on the label because Mondavi owns the trademark you could buy a token with the right to use the mark.

[Dennis_Borczon]

And how does it do that exactly?

From Mondavi:
“Each of the 1,966 bottles in this series comes with a unique authentication code that when scanned, brings the user to the transaction record for the corresponding NFT purchase, creating immutable proof of authenticity that will forever live on the blockchain.”

I guess this means if, 20 years from now, I buy one of these bottles from someone and scan the code, I can see that the “someone” I am buying it from is, in fact, the rightful owner. (Which they can demonstrate by producing the NFT.)

As others have apprehended, what it means is that Mondavi Corp. is trying to cash in on the latest trendy thing without understanding it & hoping nobody else understands it either… The article at the link indicates that the token is for the artwork, not the wine. You just get a bottle of wine thrown in if you buy the token from Mondavi. For obvious reasons, transferring the token doesn’t transfer the wine. So the token doesn’t actually do anything to authenticate the wine regardless what Mondavi says. The token is unique because its uniqueness is verified by the blockchain. The uniqueness of the code put on a sticker on the bottle of wine is not verified by anything, so any aspiring Rudys, who, for whatever reason, think there is some profit in counterfeiting Mondavi, can copy the code, and the copied code would be just as traceable to Mondavi and capable of “authenticating” the bottle as the original, subject only to how costly it is to print a good copy.

The page also says, “Each NFT also includes a certificate that may be redeemed for one To Kalon Vineyard® Tasting beginning from 9/30/2022 and ending 9/29/2023,” which is dumb. There is, of course, nothing to preclude Mondavi from selling a certificate that may be redeemed for one To Kalon Vineyard® Tasting without issuing an NFT. The only reason you would want to do something like this by NFT would be the smart contract functionality the blockchain can offer that can’t be accomplished just by selling a certificate - for example, instead of just giving away a certificate with the purchase of the NFT, the NFT could be coded so that every time it is sold it pays a royalty to Mondavi and issues a new To Kalon Vineyard® Tasting certificate. Or they could even make To Kalon Vineyard® itself an NFT that pays themselves royalties so if you were a producer who makes wine from To Kalon but can’t say so on the label because Mondavi owns the trademark you could buy a token with the right to use the mark.

OK now my head is officially exploding. Makes me want to call the number on ads for Roslyn Capital and buy gold coins…

[JohnP]

The way that Mondavi turns this into something bigger than wine is what they state in the last sentence on their website, see below. From my experience with NFTs, the art is rarely the main value, it’s the access key to be part of the community of the project’s NFT holders. In my opinion, the NFT projects that will last a long time will continually give back to their holders through drops, real world event access/products, etc. The wine in my opinion is only a perk for purchasing the NFT, it’s the membership that if Mondavi gets it right, will be worth its true value. Others will one day want this access key (NFT) and will pay a premium for it as NFTs can be sold, traded, etc. If Mondavi does not understand this value proposition, this will be one big PR flop that in a few years time will be forgotten. I’m rooting for Mondavi, especially since the Mondavi daughters appear to pro-crypto from what I’ve read.

From the website-
“The buyer of the NFT will receive a unique generative artwork based on the traits of the specific wine they choose, as well as a hand-crafted porcelain bottle of wine. Each NFT also includes a certificate that may be redeemed for one To Kalon Vineyard® Tasting beginning from 9/30/2022 and ending 9/29/2023 (the “To Kalon® Tasting Period”). To redeem, reserve your To Kalon Vineyard® Tasting using the Robert Mondavi Winery reservation system (subject to availability of your desired date). Please note that other costs of participation in the To Kalon Vineyard® Tasting, such as travel, lodging, and food, are not included. More benefits might present themselves over time, such as early access to events and future drops.”

[B_Beachy]

Others will one day want this access key (NFT) and will pay a premium for it as NFTs can be sold, traded, etc. If Mondavi don’t not understand this value proposition, this will be one big PR flop that in a few years time will be forgotten. I’m rooting for Mondavi, especially since the Mondavi daughters appear to pro-crypto from what I’ve read.

If that is the case, this will be like issuing stock that tracks a brand/product’s hype/long-term-loyalty instead of its financials, except there won’t be any rules to protect consumers, and companies don’t care if the value tanks after they have cashed in. It’s not too far off loyalty points that can be diluted overnight or completely erased, just with a “generative” piece of art associated that nobody else will ever see unless you annoyingly make them. Mondavi can issue more NFTs at any time which may make the existing NFTs less valuable, and they have little incentive to protect the value of NFTs that aren’t making them money anymore. They can move all premium benefits to newer, more expensive NFTs at any time. There are zero guarantees that these or any other NFTs get you anything beyond a mediocre gif and whatever is promised in the initial sale. IMO, this is all upside for the salespeople and zero benefit to the customer that couldn’t be established with traditional transactions and contractual sales guarantees.

I believe that NFTs have a place, but I think we are still feeling around in the dark for the best way to use them. 20 years from now, NFTs or NFT-esque things will not look at all like they do now, so I do find things like this a bit silly even if I respect that they are trying to find ways to use them.

[TimF]

I may have missed it, but I did not see on the Mondavi page what they are asking for these NFTs. Do we know the price yet?

I forget where I saw it (not on the Mondavi site, but in some article), but the price will supposedly be $3500. They are awfully cool bottles, but I’m not in for a fancy wine in a fancy bottle at that price.

As a VeeFriends wine purchaser apparently I get early access to the NFT sale tomorrow. The price is $3,500. My guess is these NFTs will be worth more than that in a month.

[Chris_Crutchfield]

As a VeeFriends wine purchaser apparently I get early access to the NFT sale tomorrow. The price is $3,500. My guess is these NFTs will be worth more than that in a month.

Well sure, after some wash trading to drive up the price you can even make jpegs worth something.

[Keith_Levenberg]

I may have missed it, but I did not see on the Mondavi page what they are asking for these NFTs. Do we know the price yet?

I forget where I saw it (not on the Mondavi site, but in some article), but the price will supposedly be $3500. They are awfully cool bottles, but I’m not in for a fancy wine in a fancy bottle at that price.

As a VeeFriends wine purchaser apparently I get early access to the NFT sale tomorrow. The price is $3,500. My guess is these NFTs will be worth more than that in a month.

If so, that sure doesn’t say a lot for the value of the bottle of wine that comes with the original NFT purchase but doesn’t follow the token.

[TimF]

I think the wine is just one aspect of the NFT. It seems like Gary V is behind this and he seems adamant that his early NFTs will give the original purchaser a positive ROI.

[Chris_Crutchfield]

Greater Fool Theory in full effect

[Jason_L]

I’m with Chris on this stuff but I’ve been expecting its demise since I first started following BTC in 2012. Everyone will always want a get rich quick scheme.

[TimF]

The reality is that nobody knows what impact NFTs will have over the next 10 years. I’m really curious though. Owning the first wine NFT might be a huge deal and it might be mostly a waste. I’m not super excited that it’s Mondavi doing it. If it was Ridge I’d be climbing over people to get it. My guess is that if SQN releases one it’s going to get a lot of attention on this board.

[TimF]

The public sale starts tomorrow at 1PM Eastern. It appears that over 500 of the 1,966 bottles/NFTs are already gone as a part of the pre-sale.

[Chris_Crutchfield]

You might find this article about NFTs interesting: How to sneak into a Bored Ape Yacht Club party - The Verge

[ybarselah]

The way that Mondavi turns this into something bigger than wine is what they state in the last sentence on their website, see below. From my experience with NFTs, the art is rarely the main value, it’s the access key to be part of the community of the project’s NFT holders. In my opinion, the NFT projects that will last a long time will continually give back to their holders through drops, real world event access/products, etc. The wine in my opinion is only a perk for purchasing the NFT, it’s the membership that if Mondavi gets it right, will be worth its true value. Others will one day want this access key (NFT) and will pay a premium for it as NFTs can be sold, traded, etc. If Mondavi don’t not understand this value proposition, this will be one big PR flop that in a few years time will be forgotten. I’m rooting for Mondavi, especially since the Mondavi daughters appear to pro-crypto from what I’ve read.

this is 100% the right take; it’s a tool to build and leverage a community. the best NFT projects get this and their communities are strong. what you’re seeing now, predictably, is large brands just throwing into this trend because why not? I actually think Mondavi is well positioned to execute authentically.

Related, it’s still very early, so i have no idea how successful this will be, but i joined a DAO which emerged out of a small NFT community. That DAO is now an investment fund. we collectively raised 140 ETH so far and have distinct committees that will rotate over time to accomplish the goals of the DAO. Each member owns a pro-rata share of the DAO and can only remain a member as long as that member maintains ownership of the underlying NFT. It’s a fascinating concept and exercise, and it has the potential to be truly transformative in the space.

[B_Beachy]

this is 100% the right take; it’s a tool to build and leverage a community. the best NFT projects get this and their communities are strong. what you’re seeing now, predictably, is large brands just throwing into this trend because why not? I actually think Mondavi is well positioned to execute authentically.

Related, it’s still very early, so i have no idea how successful this will be, but i joined a DAO which emerged out of a small NFT community. That DAO is now an investment fund. we collectively raised 140 ETH so far and have distinct committees that will rotate over time to accomplish the goals of the DAO. Each member owns a pro-rata share of the DAO and can only remain a member as long as that member maintains ownership of the underlying NFT. It’s a fascinating concept and exercise, and it has the potential to be truly transformative in the space.

How did you raise the 140 ETH? Is that a price to let new people in with a qualifying NFT? Also, why is the NFT critical to the DAO if the DAO can issue a token regardless of if an NFT is involved or not?

[Anton_D]

I can’t afford to drink Screaming Eagle, but I would gladly pay 4-500 bucks for an NFT so I could flex my cred online.

Does the Falstaff Society offer this?