Had same experience with btg white burg at EMP bar a couple years ago. It’s a bummer.
Yea. I think that’s the whole idea. And I still don’t know if the emperor has not clothes there or if it’s just the best version of that thing.
It did remind me that gojuchang is the shit and I should eat more Korean food. So there’s that.
What’s your hierarchy for korean restaurants in the city, Sam.
Off the top of my head:
Jua is my favorite in the city hands down. Admittedly I haven’t been to Jungsik/Atomix yet, maybe I will for my 40th.
Recently tried Moono and can’t wait to return. Hortus and Soogil are solid mid-range spots that don’t get a lot of hype but my wife and I enjoy every time we go there.
Olleh for best comfort food.
Not a fan of Cote or Kochi.
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Love Jua. Jungsik and Atomix are intended to be a step above and are much more expensive and longer tasting menus. Of course the Chefs from both Jua and Atomix came from Jungsik.
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Nikita (my apologies!) - curious to hear your take from someone who’s ITB. Clearly the restaurant doesn’t want to eat the X% of the bottle which may have oxidized due to low turn. How do you think about that? Also, presumably, with certain glasses, there is a degree of ‘the customer doesn’t quite know what’s accurate’ and ‘the bartender is too busy to verify’ or may not even know what a correct taste is. What’s the business to do?
I am not ITB but do know most BTG programs base the price of the glass on the wholesale price of the wine. Top restaurants also get deals on wines they put on the BTG program.
This is a $20 bottle of retail so they would not be out anything if they sold one glass.
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how does this work in New York?
yeah, I mean you could extend that to all alcohol sales which we have discussed ad nauseum on this board. At the end of the day, it’s margin they don’t want to lose.
Do you mean because of having to price list?
I know when I have sold wines I have been involved with restaurants get a discount on the wholesale price if they put in on the BTG.
Except it is small numbers. I would personally never send back an iffy older bottle that the restaurant would have to eat but I have no problem asking for a glass from a fresh bottle.
well, that’s why i’m asking you. how does it actually work? does the restaurant have to buy a certain amount? do all restaurants get this deal? can they also sell it BTB?
I don’t know that level of detail. All I know is I was involved in a small French wine project with a bunch of ITB people. It was just for fun as we bought some 120 year old vineyards in Roussillon. Two of the partners were distributors and of course they did nothing to sell the wines. So I tasted a somm friend on it and he really liked the wine, particularly because it had a few years of age. I said name your price so we gave him a super fair price and he blew out of 50 or so cases in a few weeks! The statue of limitations has passed!
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Coming in with some trepidation as last time I mentioned something less-than-kosher occurring ITB I was practically labeled as guilty myself. But I doubt anyone else is going to answer this so here goes:
In NY a deal beyond wholesale pricing that is filed with the state cannot be legally struck. To do it legally, prices would need to be reposted with the state and then the new pricing not only can be given but must legally be granted to anyone that wants it. A difficulty is that those prices cannot go into effect until roughly one month (at the earliest) after the new prices are posted. Makes it tough when the resto is looking to begin a new pour immediately.
Now to get into the sneaky (aka illegal) and very prevalent stuff:
-Not every distributor wants to offer low(er) margins to accounts that aren’t going to move volume. So what’s a distributor to do when they want to favor a particular account? Oftentimes they’ll use “blind pricing.” Say they typically show their deepest discount on a 5-case quantity. They will keep their listed 5cs discount and then add an additional discount with the state on something like six cases but not show this on their public price sheet so only some accounts will be aware of this. It’s technically illegal and I think some big distributors have been caught and penalized for it.
I mention two other methods that are often employed in my book.
- One is using “hand delivery” to walk in extra bottles at no cost to the account. Sort of a buy 10 get 2 free deal.
- Another that can only be used by larger importer/distributors that work in multiple markets is to give chain restaurants with sister restaurants in other cities with more liberal pricing laws. The example I saw in NY was with a restaurant that had another one in Las Vegas where the free goods or extra discount was applied in Vegas for running things BTG in NY.
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Tony - Thanks for the detail. Just checking myself I am correct in saying that some how or other distributors can give high volume BTG programs discounts?
Yes. There’s just so much incentive to do it. Another, and totally legal, way it’s done is for distributors to post a price on a quantity that most restaurants can’t handle due to their own volume or storage limitations. Many of the bigger places either have large cellar spaces on premise or rent off premise storage so they can accommodate drops of 10, 20, or more cases whereas something like a 5cs drop is about the max many places can handle.
It’s a tricky business. Even though a restaurant may say they’ll run something BTG and commit to it for a period of time or for a given quantity, things happen. The buyer may leave and the new buyer will want to change the list to put their stamp on it or whatever. If the importer brings in sufficient quantity to supply the volume but something goes wrong, the importer is stuck holding the bag. Sure, maybe eventually that stuff sells down but imagine what a couple situations occur simultaneously and it will seriously screw up cash flow projections.
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FWIW I find your perspective invaluable and appreciate you taking the time / suffering the mud slinging.
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All the newly released Atomix reservations sold out in <15mins. Not sure how much less exactly bc I checked at 15min mark.
Is that just the reservations bots churning away or is real demand that high?
From bitter experience, I can confirm they sold out in less than a few seconds.
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Okay. So scrappers.
What a shame.
No idea about the bots and such for Atomix, but I got a spot at the Bar Tasting right when reservations opened. Got the time slot I wanted. Did not try for the regular seating.
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