New Wine Advocate Service - Wine Benchmarking...

[Bill_Tex_Landreth]

Why is OP now gone?

[Ken_V]

@Rainer Guntermann

Neal,
there is a thread " Benchmarking ".
The author is asking: Can anyone tell me how this will work ? and Monika larner responds later: No clue here.Sorry.
Thread started at 1.48 a.m. No more traffic.
Cheers
Rainer

Now, Robert M. Parker, Jr. replies “Where is this service defined or available?..first time i heard of it…and it sounds …to be diplomatic…unusual…at the very minimum”

I think that says it’s either a Lisa project or a hoax.

[TomHill]

@Ken V

@Rainer Guntermann

Neal,
there is a thread " Benchmarking ".
The author is asking: Can anyone tell me how this will work ? and Monika larner responds later: No clue here.Sorry.
Thread started at 1.48 a.m. No more traffic.
Cheers
Rainer

Now, Robert M. Parker, Jr. replies “Where is this service defined or available?..first time i heard of it…and it sounds …to be diplomatic…unusual…at the very minimum”

I think that says it’s either a Lisa project or a hoax.

Knowing Kyle, I’m certain it’s not a hoax on his part.
Tom

[Neal.Mollen]

Wow. Thanks Ken. It was hard for me to imagine Parker being on board with this

[TomHill]

@Kyle Schlachter

The Wine Advocate is launching a new service called “Wine Benchmarking.” This new service was asked to be announced (publicly) to the Colorado wine industry. Having seen this announcement I decided to also mention it on my personal wine blog (can you call it a blog when you post once every few months??) and here. I have no idea what other wineries/regions were notified of this new service (I would hope this service would be available to all wineries!). I reached out to Lisa Perrotta-Brown via Twitter but have not heard back from her.

The details of this service are for an $800 fee 2 wines will be rated/evaluated and wineries provided with actionable steps provided by WA reviewers to improve quality in the vineyard and winery at a Benchmarking seminar in February. I’ve been notified that the Wine Advocate is not happy that I announced this info, despite the fact that it was asked to be communicated to the CO wine community - hence why I took down the OP to confirm that it was indeed not confidential info.

Thanks for clarifying that to us, Kyle.

I can see why (some) wineries would use LeoMcClosky’s Enologix service to guide their winemaking to achieve higher
scores. He is, after all, a winemaker.
But to rely on rank (winemaking) amateurs for winemaking advice seems positively stupid.

All smacks of some serious ethical issues here.
Tom

[J_Sweeney]

From Lisa…

"RPWA will be rolling out a new educational program for the trade in 2018, called Benchmarking. It is an extension of some of the wine quality seminars and masterclasses that we have already conducted at trade fairs around the world, opening this opportunity up to anyone interested in better understanding what we do, how we do it and in receiving direct feedback on how their wines measure-up qualitatively against the global competition.

We will be offering this as an interactive educational experience, in that trade participants will be invited to submit wines for assessment. The wines will be assessed - blind, to avoid any conflicts of interest - by members of our tasting team and the participants will receive an assessment sheet with technical comments about the wine. They will not receive a tasting note or a score. Confidentiality agreements on both sides will require that the comments they receive cannot ever be published or otherwise disseminated by either party. Furthermore, to avoid any conflicts of interest, the tasters will never know the identities of the wines assessed.

The point is for participants to receive unbiased, expert, technical feedback prior to attending the seminar, which will offer instruction on the elements of wine quality as assessed by RPWA, and allow members of the trade to better understand where wines sit qualitatively within a global context.

Participating in the Benchmarking seminars does not in any way increase the likelihood that a wine will be reviewed by The Wine Advocate. Our reviewers personally choose the wines they put into their regional reports based on what has historically been reviewed, regional benchmarks and their own new discoveries. Maintaining our integrity and code of ethics is of utmost importance to us. This new program is intended purely to educate about and demystify what we do for those that want to understand better our process and see their wine(s) through global eyes."

[TomHill]

@J. Sweeney

From Lisa…

"RPWA will be rolling out a new educational program for the trade in 2018, called Benchmarking. It is an extension of some of the wine quality seminars and masterclasses that we have already conducted at trade fairs around the world, opening this opportunity up to anyone interested in better understanding what we do, how we do it and in receiving direct feedback on how their wines measure-up qualitatively against the global competition.

We will be offering this as an interactive educational experience, in that trade participants will be invited to submit wines for assessment. The wines will be assessed - blind, to avoid any conflicts of interest - by members of our tasting team and the participants will receive an assessment sheet with technical comments about the wine. They will not receive a tasting note or a score. Confidentiality agreements on both sides will require that the comments they receive cannot ever be published or otherwise disseminated by either party. Furthermore, to avoid any conflicts of interest, the tasters will never know the identities of the wines assessed.

The point is for participants to receive unbiased, expert, technical feedback prior to attending the seminar, which will offer instruction on the elements of wine quality as assessed by RPWA, and allow members of the trade to better understand where wines sit qualitatively within a global context.

Participating in the Benchmarking seminars does not in any way increase the likelihood that a wine will be reviewed by The Wine Advocate. Our reviewers personally choose the wines they put into their regional reports based on what has historically been reviewed, regional benchmarks and their own new discoveries. Maintaining our integrity and code of ethics is of utmost importance to us. This new program is intended purely to educate about and demystify what we do for those that want to understand better our process and see their wine(s) through global eyes."

Hmmmm…no mention of the $800 fee?
I’m sure wineries will be jumping at the chance for technical comments from wine writers.
Tom

[andy_velebil]

@TomHill

@J. Sweeney

From Lisa…

"RPWA will be rolling out a new educational program for the trade in 2018, called Benchmarking. It is an extension of some of the wine quality seminars and masterclasses that we have already conducted at trade fairs around the world, opening this opportunity up to anyone interested in better understanding what we do, how we do it and in receiving direct feedback on how their wines measure-up qualitatively against the global competition.

We will be offering this as an interactive educational experience, in that trade participants will be invited to submit wines for assessment. The wines will be assessed - blind, to avoid any conflicts of interest - by members of our tasting team and the participants will receive an assessment sheet with technical comments about the wine. They will not receive a tasting note or a score. Confidentiality agreements on both sides will require that the comments they receive cannot ever be published or otherwise disseminated by either party. Furthermore, to avoid any conflicts of interest, the tasters will never know the identities of the wines assessed.

The point is for participants to receive unbiased, expert, technical feedback prior to attending the seminar, which will offer instruction on the elements of wine quality as assessed by RPWA, and allow members of the trade to better understand where wines sit qualitatively within a global context.

Participating in the Benchmarking seminars does not in any way increase the likelihood that a wine will be reviewed by The Wine Advocate. Our reviewers personally choose the wines they put into their regional reports based on what has historically been reviewed, regional benchmarks and their own new discoveries. Maintaining our integrity and code of ethics is of utmost importance to us. This new program is intended purely to educate about and demystify what we do for those that want to understand better our process and see their wine(s) through global eyes."

Hmmmm…no mention of the $800 fee?
I’m sure wineries will be jumping at the chance for technical comments from wine writers.
Tom

Yeah and we all believe that no one at WA will know anything about what wines were reviewed. Exactly how many (I mean how few) people work at WA as a reviewer? No way this type of service should ever be undertaken by a wine review publication. The likelihood of biased reviews at some point along the way, or even the perception, is far too great.

[Bill_Tex_Landreth]

@TomHill

@J. Sweeney

From Lisa…

"RPWA will be rolling out a new educational program for the trade in 2018, called Benchmarking. It is an extension of some of the wine quality seminars and masterclasses that we have already conducted at trade fairs around the world, opening this opportunity up to anyone interested in better understanding what we do, how we do it and in receiving direct feedback on how their wines measure-up qualitatively against the global competition.

We will be offering this as an interactive educational experience, in that trade participants will be invited to submit wines for assessment. The wines will be assessed - blind, to avoid any conflicts of interest - by members of our tasting team and the participants will receive an assessment sheet with technical comments about the wine. They will not receive a tasting note or a score. Confidentiality agreements on both sides will require that the comments they receive cannot ever be published or otherwise disseminated by either party. Furthermore, to avoid any conflicts of interest, the tasters will never know the identities of the wines assessed.

The point is for participants to receive unbiased, expert, technical feedback prior to attending the seminar, which will offer instruction on the elements of wine quality as assessed by RPWA, and allow members of the trade to better understand where wines sit qualitatively within a global context.

Participating in the Benchmarking seminars does not in any way increase the likelihood that a wine will be reviewed by The Wine Advocate. Our reviewers personally choose the wines they put into their regional reports based on what has historically been reviewed, regional benchmarks and their own new discoveries. Maintaining our integrity and code of ethics is of utmost importance to us. This new program is intended purely to educate about and demystify what we do for those that want to understand better our process and see their wine(s) through global eyes."

Hmmmm…no mention of the $800 fee?
I’m sure wineries will be jumping at the chance for technical comments from wine writers.
Tom

Technical comments aren’t the same things as a tasting note?

[Neal.Mollen]

@Bill Tex Landreth

Technical comments aren’t the same things as a tasting note?

Technically, no

[Bill_Tex_Landreth]

@Neal.Mollen

@Bill Tex Landreth

Technical comments aren’t the same things as a tasting note?

Technically, no

So, it will be this is too acidic or what? I am confused on what they are providing. Can’t they get a technical lab analysis anywhere for less?

[Neal.Mollen]

@Bill Tex Landreth

@Neal.Mollen

@Bill Tex Landreth

Technical comments aren’t the same things as a tasting note?

Technically, no

So, it will be this is too acidic or what? I am confused on what they are providing. Can’t they get a technical lab analysis anywhere for less?

“You’re pH is ok, but your points are 2% too low. We can fix that; insert $800 please”

[Mark_C]

@Neal.Mollen

@Bill Tex Landreth

Technical comments aren’t the same things as a tasting note?

“Technically, no”

He said, tastefully.

[JulianD]

Interesting that it seems no one else was informed this was rolling out. Seems to be a pet project with no oversight and/or advice asked for.

[A_S_K_R_O_B_A_C_K]

@Mason H

What an embarrassment this is for TWA and Robert Parker.

That ship sailed long ago…

[ToddFrench]

I’ll write the first ‘technical note’:

“Your wine appears to be red in color, and is a liquid.”

[andy_velebil]

@Todd F r e n c h

I’ll write the first ‘technical note’:

“Your wine appears to be red in color, and is a liquid. Add this spirit to raise the ABV and add some of this liquid oak. Congrats your wine is now 3 points higher than it was before.”

Todd
I fixed your post

[larry_schaffer]

What ‘recommendations’ do you think consulting winemakers make?!?!?

Cheers.

[LarryA]

Just posted at eBob:

This is a complete embarrassment. Decide what you want to be: a money-making outfit, as much as possible from as many different sources as possible, or a magazine/publication/website of independent wine criticism, which is what you have traditionally been. You can’t do both.

I used to be owner and publisher of Stereophile, a magazine that subjectively evaluated high fidelity sound equipment (and still does). In addition, we did technical measurements of most of the products we reviewed. Every manufacturer who knew, or sensed, they were going to get a bad review wanted to withdraw that product and substitute a version that addressed the problems we had identified. We flatly and absolutely rejected that process. If it turned out there was going to be an updated or improved product, we might conduct a second review down the line, but never instead of the original review, only in addition to it.

Every producer wants a second chance. But that completely vitiates the role of the independent evaluator, which is what a magazine of criticism is supposed to be.

Even after this program is withdrawn and exterminated it will be an enormous blotch on the reputation of The Wine Advocate, and it will be indelible. Robert Parker will rue the day he sold his publication to money-grubbers who know nothing about independent journalism.

Larry Archibald
Former Publisher
Stereophile Magazine

[JulianD]

^ and that doesnt even include the fact that they’re getting paid by that same company.