Perhaps. But, for the record, I wasn’t complaining in my first post here; I was simply providing a data point after it was suggested that Rhys customers who had not also been Aeris customers were not being offered the experience. And excerpt for maybe one, I didn’t get the sense that everyone else was complaining, but rather trying to understand the situation.
I would just like to chime in on the grapes. I welcome any new experiments in grapes other than the standard varieties made famous in France. California is very unexplored in comparison to Europe for grape variety.
Market acceptance of the pricing for a brand new wine is always a bit of an unknown, and demand will eventually affect the pricing of these wines over time.
But I think the pricing for these is more in the context of Rhys, its brands, its track record, than it is about what people would pay for Nebbiolo and Nerello from Italy. These are all or mostly getting sold to Rhys customers, not put on the shelf next to Etna and Piedmont products. And the pricing for these is pretty modest for Rhys’s brand.
You might say “what should chardonnay from Piedmont cost?” Well, if it’s Gaja selling the chardonnay, the answer is $250. Because it’s Gaja.
What does dry sauvignon blanc and semillon sell for around the world? But if Yquem or Haut Brion make them, then the pricing is in the realm of those producers, not what Sancerre normally costs.
I’m not saying Rhys is Haut Brion, Yquem or Gaja, but those are just to illustrate the point that established premium brands have their own range of pricing.
Chris, good points as always.
And, like Cris, I am a fan of these experiments. Hard not to be a fan of proven wine makers trying to find new things for us to love.
Rich,
Without a body of study (like Pinot in Burgundy or Nebbiolo in Piemonte), Nerello Mascalese is much riskier but the wines can clearly be great. It is a variety that can offer a vibrant fresh fruit profile and site transparency. It seems like a perfect fit for some of California’s better soils. It was one of the riskier bets with Aeris but with what we are seeing so far, I think we are going to be lucky on this one.
I have tried many Nerello Mascaleses in Sicily. I was delighted by the quality, fascinated by the variability, and tickled about the (loooooowww) cost. In my mind this will be a big issue. How do you charge a “California” price when there are many similar labels from Italy at a fraction of that number? Yes the wine may be much better but we know how competitive the market is for these lesser know grapes.
The economic framework around Italian wine has been a big deterrent for New World projects. Our hope with Aeris is to offer two entry levels wines at attractive prices (please remember our prices include shipping!) as well as higher end bottlings. At the end of the day, we realize that we have to deliver quality that compares favorably. For example, I would like our Rosso to compare favorably to Produttori del Barbaresco normale (probably the best red wine value on the planet at ~$40 plus shipping now). We will have to let customers tell us if we achieved that goal!
For Rhys fans like me curiosity will win out and the wines will find a place in my cellar if they are good. Maybe that’s enough. But I would love to see early drinking blends that bring California sunshine and rival Italian wines for food friendliness and depth, as well as longer aging ones that grow in complexity and deliciousness.
It is great news that you would look for both, as that is what we aim to produce!
Sorry if it sounded like I was calling anyone a complainer. That wasn’t my intention at all.
To the contrary, I was just sharing that today’s forms of communication lead to this kind of situation, where is may be difficult or impossible to invite certain people or visit certain people without others learning of it and possibly wondering why you didn’t invite or visit them.
It’s just a feature of life in the year 2020, and sometimes it can be awkward or uncomfortable, and I think it’s completely understandable to feel that way.
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Thanks Kevin this is really helpful.
As any FYI I was thinking about what I’d compare to your red for price, quality and value. I thought of the PdB normale and Fontodi Chianti Classico ($35 ish). Those are baseline Italians for me. Maybe add in some other Langhe Nebbiolos in this price range like Giacosa and Sandrone. I don’t have a ‘baseline Nerello Mascalese’ for easy comparison sadly. Maybe also try Idlewild’s Nebbiolo.
One of the huge challenges of this Italian group is vintage variation - some vintages just aren’t worth buying. In others I back up the truck. It’s just a reality of weather (though maybe changing with global warming?). California is much more consistent in my experience. Yes there are variations but they are mostly in a narrower range (case in point: your Alpine Pinot) so that could be a huge benefit for your project.
That’s a great point Rich. We are already seeing far more vintage variation in Sicily than California. A mailing list model (which is the only way to afford CA’s extraordinarily high costs) requires more consistency than most Continental climates will allow.
Oh, fascinating (and shows I think like a buyer, not a wine producer). List buying certainly requires a high degree of trust and consistency. I nearly always buy from CA lists before reviews or tasting. I think the only EU region that would be tolerable (for me) for that kind of approach is (red) Burgundy. I skip vintages everywhere else, usually driven by vintage variation. E.g as much as I love Barolo, I bought very little of ‘14 and ‘15, instead going deep on ‘13 and planning on going deep in ‘16. Maybe I’d sing a different tune if I could lock in guaranteed allocations from my favorite producers though.
Who does the email originate from… I’ve not see anything in my email from either Rhys or Aeris on this.
Excellent point, I hadn’t really focused on that before.
Though Rhys is a relatively rare one where there do seem to be reviews out by the time I have an allocation to buy. Kutch is another one. I wouldn’t actually know that, but they kindly include the reviews in their emails and on their websites when the releases are out, which (notwithstanding all the general grist about critics and scores) I actually find kind of helpful.
Kevin Harvey explains it on page one of the thread.
Duh! Thanks David.
I think all Piedmont vintages have validity and usefulness, and the lesser years provide wines ready to drink well before the great years do.
Never understood/will never understand the folks who only buy in trophy vintages.
Limited funds, limited space.
I buy what I like. In vintages I like I buy more. Stuff I love I sample just about every year. How does that make me a trophy hunter? I always find it sad to be insulted by people who have never met me.
I’m very familiar with the ‘every vintage has value’ argument. But it’s hard to believe anyone buys lots of wines they don’t like or prefer.
Didn’t insult you. Just said I don’t understand you.
If that’s an insult then you need to get off the internet.