New "Old School" Napa Cab Producers?

WINE TALK
21

Kapcsandy is not old school, although they are not exactly new wave either. They do pick at lower brix than many top Cabs because Yountville is colder and they do a prodigious sorting that removes berries that have even the slightest dimple. In addition, Denis Malbec does not go for maximum extraction or high fermentation temps. But they do long cold soaks and very long extended macerations and use close to all new oak. So I left them off the list. I also left off Ridge because they are not Napa, but they are old school. Vineyard 7&8 probably gets close to 100% new oak and is made in the modern style. Again, its brix might be a touch lower than some because Spring Mountain is a cooler spot as well. All of Luc Morlet’s wines are heavily new oaked, including Chards up to 60-80% new.

22

Lou and Denis are both from the “Old World” but that does not make the wine OW in style. Very good wines as I mentioned and understandable why they are not on your list. As for 7&8, no way was I trying to infer that they are OW. Just that yesterday the wine tasted like riper vintage Bordeaux (which also wears a ton of new wood in their youth). Luc’s wines do show a lot of wood especially given the large amount of Darnajou with heavy toast levels.

23

Roy, do you think any of these qualify for your list?

  • Andrew Geoffrey
  • Sullivan
  • Guilliams
  • Smith-Madrone
  • Gamble Family
24

I have to say that I am so tired of Caalifornia wine, and I just about finsihed with it. So much of what I have been trying is spoofed. Even the stuff that isn’t spoofed per se still tastes like California Cough Syrup to me. Big, overblown, no balance or nuance. I have 4 or 5 wines that seem to deliver on a regular basis for me (ironically, all but one winery begin with the letter ‘S’). Outside of that, I am solely going to buy France from now on.

There is one California pinot that a trsted friend recommended to me, and that tasted cough syrupy and spoofy to me, too. Since I really trust my buddy, I am going to give this pinot producer one more try. But I am not hopeful.

25

Not Napa, but Mount Eden is another old-school cabernet producer from Northern California.

Going even farther away from Napa in Northern California, I’ve had cabernets recently from Cabot (Humboldt County) and Navarro (Mendocino) which were really good, lower in alcohol, red fruit profile with bright acids and firm tannic structure, hints of green, light hand with oak, and good QPR.

By the way, the best moment from this thread is:

Corison… the poster child
Mayacamas… makes Corsion look like Helen Turley

Mayacamas dials the acid up to “11” on their red wines, for sure.

26

One offshoot question I have – we focus on the (both new and old school, and big and small) producers that have a lot of buzz, but aren’t there probably any number of boring old labels out there that don’t hold the interest of the wine geek but who still make cabs in a more traditional style?

If you tasted through the more premium and SVD cabs from Trefethen, Kendall Jackson, Franciscan, Sterling, Grgich Hill, Clos Pegase, Freemark Abbey, BV, Dry Creek Vineyards, Pine Ridge, Ferrari-Carano, Simi, etc. etc. (just pulling names out of my ass, no idea as to most of those specifically), there would probably be some traditionally-styled cabs in there, wouldn’t there?

My suspicion has always been that we tend to think Napa cab is all becoming ultramodern because most of the producers that critics and wine geeks focus on are in that style, but really, the Cult Cabs and the Rombauers and the other ultrarich producers are still only a small percentage of Napa/Sonoma cab, and I suspect (though I don’t know) that a good portion of the rest of it is in a medium to a more traditional style.

27

Guilliams and Smith-Madrone, for sure. Not as sure about Gamble, as I have not had a Cab from them, and AG I am unsure of as well, although I know the owner and have had a few. I would think AG is more of a hybrid new-wave. His wines can hit 15% alcohol.

28

Roy, you are making this a very useful thread.

I love the burg threads, but also enjoy seeing more detailed information on US producers.

All the best.

29

I think you would like them. As you said about Frog’s Leap, Tom Gamble is a farmer first, winemaker second. Some stats:

  • 2007 Gamble “Family Home” Cabernet: 14.2% abv; French oak, 45% new
  • 2009 Gamble “Cairo” Cabernet: 13.9% abv; combination of French (35% new) and American (15% new) oak
30

I will check them out! Thanks. He is known for being the source of among the best SauvBlanc juice out there, but I’ve not had his reds.

31

Enjoyed the 2007 Faust last night with grilled pork steaks. Like a high-acid version of old Napa with slightly brighter fruit. EtOH 14.2%, no heat whatsoever, not @ all sure if the wine makes any of Roy’s other benchmarks.

Coombsville fruit, and plenty of it, but not really tannic so I’m not sure about how this bottle ages. Bought a 6-pack after reading Eric Asimov and glad I did.

32

From my experience, that’s not the case, sadly. For example, try a Mondavi regular bottling, BV Rutherford or Beringer Knights Valley – once reliable, balanced wines – and you’ll be amazed by how hot they are now in most vintages.

33

I have not had a chance to put together a thoughtful response to all of the information shared, but want to let you all know I have not disappeared! I also want to thank Roy for all of his contributions as well as to everyone else who has contributed . I will respond more thoughtfully in the near future.

34

Someone recently alerted me to this thread - I was traveling on the east coast and taking a bit of a break from the boards. I neither “resist” nor accept the “old school” tag - I think it is pretty much meaningless. What I can tell you is that my goal is always to showcase the fruit from my less-than-an-acre vineyard. If that means I pick at 24 Brix and make a 14.2% ABV that sees all French oak but only 30% new, then that’s how I go (this is for my current release, 2009). 2010 was a bit of a different growing situation, coming in at 25.8 Brix, 14.4%, 20% new French. 2011 picked at 23.3 Brix before any rain BECAUSE I FELT THEY WERE AS READY AS THEY WOULD BE THAT YEAR, 30% new French, 13.7%.

What’s it all mean? Same vineyard, same owner/philosophy, same winemaker, different growing season. Different wines, similar profiles in taste.

35

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36

Based on Roy’s rec, I did recently order some Corison “Kronos.”

Old School, old vineyard.

37

Laurel Glen
Dunn
Bonny’s Vineyard

Do it!!

38

Is this still true despite the change in ownership?

39

I would say Karl Lawrence leans toward the old world style, but not to the degree of Corison or Mayacamas.

40

Not Napa, but Arnot-Roberts’ Clajeax (Sonoma), Bugay (Sonoma) and Fellom Ranch (SCM) are old school in style.