Need Help: Varietal versus Variety

Wait . . . . so the dictionary is–gasp–wrong!!! All this consternation over varietal being misused as a noun, and the dictionary allows it.

For the record, I’ll still use cultivar.

No, the dictionary is not (in this case) wrong. Those who said that varietal cannot be a noun are wrong.

What varietal cannot be is a grape.

Well I will freely admit that I didn’t realize the EU allows the 85% rule for varietal labeling. Given that the blending rule is pretty much world wide I will concede that 15-25% has thus established a stupid definition.

Grape Varietals – Your Essential Guide - WinePros" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

My dictionary defines the noun varietal as: “a wine made entirely or chiefly from one variety of grape.” That usage dates to 1955.

Mr. Fleming.

I’m shocked.

Shocked I tell you. SHOCKED!

Whether the law allows or doesn’t allow additional grapes is irrelevant when it comes to proper English usage. What they really mean is “monovarietal” wine, which is what the dictionary is talking about when they call something a “varietal” wine.

As in: “The Mondavi Cabernet Sauvignon is a varietal wine, as opposed to Bordeaux, which is a ___ wine.”

They mean a wine that is defined by the variety used, or I guess, by the principal variety used. In neither case does “varietal” become a noun. It remains an adjective. Your definition in fact, is the definition of an adjective, as it answers the question “What type of wine?”

“Why monsieur! A wine made by one variety of grape.”

You don’t say “Hey buddy. Pass me some varietal!” In what argot would people use varietal as a noun in the sense given by your dictionary?

But of course, you knew that. Why the hell didn’t you enlighten the masses and explain that it is still not a noun? Oh for shame Mr. Fleming, for shame.

Because it is a noun. In an ideal world it wouldn’t be, but we don’t live in an ideal world. In the world we live in, varietal has one accepted noun usage.

Wine industry argot. “XYZ Cellars produces four varietals.”

From the Online Etymology Dictionary:

varietal (adj) >
1866, a biologists’ word (first attested in Darwin), from > variety> . In ref. to wines, meaning “made from a single variety of grape” is first attested 1941, Amer.Eng. As a noun, in this sense, attested from 1955.

My dictionary defines the noun varietal as: “a wine made entirely or chiefly from one variety of grape.” That usage dates to 1955.

That definition is IMO not correct, but “varietal” can be a noun. For example: “In that shop the blends are in the center aisle and varietals along the back wall.”

The point is, “varietal” is referring to a wine, not a grape.

The problem I have with the above definition is that varietal whether used as a noun or adjective refers to the labeling of a wine, not the grape content. For example, Rayas is 100% Grenache, but it’s not a varietal wine, because it’s not labeled Grenache. A Zin that’s 15% Pets is a varietal, only if it is labeled Zinfandel. Local regulations therefore define the labeling, but it’s the labeling that causes a wine to be a varietal or not.

Varietal Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

varietal noun
Definition of VARIETAL
: a wine > bearing the name > of the principal grape from which it is made
First Known Use of VARIETAL
1950

(emphasis mine)

With technical terms, consensus wins, so that means you are wrong IMO.

You are entirely correct, Larry. As I noted in post #14, a varietal “by definition, carries the name of its principal grape on the label.” The development of varietal labeling is explained in the article I linked in post #24.

I tend to agree. But there is no industry consensus supporting ‘grape varietal,’ or making ‘varietal’ a synonym for ‘variety.’ If you think there is, I challenge you to show us. If you can, I’ll eat my hat, shoes, and overcoat.