Napa vs Washington (State)

[Mel_Knox]

Over the past twenty years we have seen a bit of a land rush in Eastern Washington.Some of it is based on wine quality and some is based on costs…In Eastern Washington one can make inexpensive wine quite easily. Very difficult inNapa and Sonoma. You can buy a 5 bedroom house in Pasco for $220,000. In Napa?? Maybe 1,200,000$…

[Freelon_F_Hunter]

In Washington I lean towards Syrah, Merlot and Blends. Most of my cab purchases are still from Napa/Sonoma. Also, in Washington I have to be very selective otherwise you get the heavy oak, high alcohol and very primary type of wine.

This is the rap on a lot Washington wine I think, especially as a daily drinker. A lot need time in the cellar to keep from being too primary IMHO, but then they are great.

But agree with Brandon and Chris about Soos Creek and JB Neufeld cabs, and DeLille D2 (a blend) as places to start. I also like Long Shadows Feather (their cab), but like a little age on it.

[Chris_C_a_r_y]

Lots of interesting chatter here, the Seattle crew came out in droves. Where’s henry?

One thing i find interesting is that the comparisons about “better” and “QPR” make a basic assumption that the wines are on the same playing field, while there is also general acknowledgement that the wine profiles for the same varieties (either Bordeaux or Rhones) grown in each state are not the same. Best made examples from each might be both world class, but I bet most of us could differentiate by state in a blind tasting, and what we think is “better” would be influenced likely by some preestablished bias/preference. Not too unlike comparing Pinot Noir from Oregon vs. California.

Another thing, and maybe someone can point me to someone if I am wrong, but I don’t think many professional critics cover both Napa and Washington Cabs/Blends, Jeb Dunnick for Rhones is only one I can think of, but the WA, WS, WE editors have usually been assigned Napa and rest of California maybe, then Washington gets lumped in with Oregon or some set of “other regions”. The Washington only critics are the ones I follow closely, but they don’t review many, if any, California wines. The point being there aren’t individuals who routinely compare the top wines (or even the middling or mediocre wines) from each region, vintage by vintage. I volunteer my palate for the task if anyone wants to send me their wines.

[Brandon_R]

Lots of interesting chatter here, the Seattle crew came out in droves. Where’s henry?

One thing i find interesting is that the comparisons about “better” and “QPR” make a basic assumption that the wines are on the same playing field, while there is also general acknowledgement that the wine profiles for the same varieties (either Bordeaux or Rhones) grown in each state are not the same. Best made examples from each might be both world class, but I bet most of us could differentiate by state in a blind tasting, and what we think is “better” would be influenced likely by some preestablished bias/preference. Not too unlike comparing Pinot Noir from Oregon vs. California.

Another thing, and maybe someone can point me to someone if I am wrong, but I don’t think many professional critics cover both Napa and Washington Cabs/Blends, Jeb Dunnick for Rhones is only one I can think of, but the WA, WS, WE editors have usually been assigned Napa and rest of California maybe, then Washington gets lumped in with Oregon or some set of “other regions”. The Washington only critics are the ones I follow closely, but they don’t review many, if any, California wines. The point being there aren’t individuals who routinely compare the top wines (or even the middling or mediocre wines) from each region, vintage by vintage. I volunteer my palate for the task if anyone wants to send me their wines.

Now, where have I heard that before?

I buy Washington and California Cabs/blends at a roughly 2:1 ratio. Part of that (most) is driven by the price for the California wines I love. Blinded, Washington is generally going to show poorly, as they don’t usually have the overt fruit that many California Cabs/blends do and, in a truly blind format, the fruitier wines often show better. However, Washington does really well when not side-by-side with California. The JB Neufeld link above is, in my opinion, awesome but also somewhat of an anomaly. Washington Cabs vs. California Cabs blind might show similarly to a tasting pitting Oregon PN versus Cali PN. Both great, but not a good side-by-side.

For tough-to-beat QPR Cabs/blends, take a look at Soos Creek, Seven Hills Winery, L’Ecole No. 41, and a newer find, Virtue Cellars. Gramercy was mentioned above and is worth note. One of my personal favorites is always Woodward Canyon.

While I love Cadence wines, recommending them to a person who really loves Cali Cab is likely going to result in disappointment, IMO.

[Chris_C_a_r_y]

Reading is for the lazy. Plagiarism is where its at!

[John_Glas]

I’ve read multiple articles recently on how the state of Washington may be one of the most underappreciated wine regions, and that their Bordeaux variety wines have become world class.

I would be in the camp that the Syrah wines are world class. You will pay 2 to 3 times the price in California for good Syrah.

[John_Glas]

I have tasted a ton from both states. You will not find a wine from California that costs $11 that is as good as the 2014 Davenport Cellars Mr. B which just sold out thanks to many buying on Berserkers. One of the best Bordeaux style blends I have tasted under $40.00.

[Matt_Mauldin]

I’ve read multiple articles recently on how the state of Washington may be one of the most underappreciated wine regions, and that their Bordeaux variety wines have become world class.

I would be in the camp that the Syrah wines are world class. You will pay 2 to 3 times the price in California for good Syrah.

The OP was about Napa, so you may be referring to there, but plenty of examples of great Syrah from California under $50 - Lagier Meredith (which is Napa Valley), Halcon, Bedrock, Ojai, (pre-sale) Qupe Hillside Select, Tercero, Melville all come to mind - but there are plenty of other examples. If you go over $50, the options expand exponentially. I’ll put high QPR with Syrah in California up against anywhere.

[Nathan_Smyth]

We visited Walla Walla in 2010 and were astounded how good the reds were

Back circa that timeframe, the Powers Champoux was one of the best New World reds I ever tasted:

https://shop.badgermtnvineyard.com/xe/xe.asp?page=viewcat&cat=FallSale

Sadly, we don’t seem to see Powers on the East Coast anymore.

And at the other extreme, if you like inky black wines, then check out Covington’s Cabernet Franc [another label which we don’t seem to see around here anymore]:

Covington Cellars LLC - Wines - All Wines
.

[Colin_Haggerty]

Although we had been on the Quilceda Creek list for well over a decade prior, our interest in Washington State wines really began when our son matriculated at Gonzaga (and then went on to a Masters at UW). We have found that the Evergreen State, in general, offers much more bang for the buck than the Napa Valley.

[JosephW]

I’ve read multiple articles recently on how the state of Washington may be one of the most underappreciated wine regions, and that their Bordeaux variety wines have become world class.

I would be in the camp that the Syrah wines are world class. You will pay 2 to 3 times the price in California for good Syrah.

Not if you buy your Syrah out of Santa Ynez…

[Scott_Brunson]

In Washington I lean towards Syrah, Merlot and Blends. Most of my cab purchases are still from Napa/Sonoma. Also, in Washington I have to be very selective otherwise you get the heavy oak, high alcohol and very primary type of wine.

This has been my experience, although there are some WA wines I really love. At one of the Charleston off lines we did a top tier WA tasting; it was not well received.
My wife and I look forward to visiting Chris C for some insider info at some point.

[John_Glas]

Not if you buy your Syrah out of Santa Ynez…

Good point. Different style but I do like many producers from Santa Ynez

[John_Glas]

The OP was about Napa, so you may be referring to there, but plenty of examples of great Syrah from California under $50 - Lagier Meredith (which is Napa Valley), Halcon, Bedrock, Ojai, (pre-sale) Qupe Hillside Select, Tercero, Melville all come to mind - but there are plenty of other examples. If you go over $50, the options expand exponentially. I’ll put high QPR with Syrah in California up against anywhere.

From Napa yes the Syrah’s are a bit step in comparison of the quality of Walla Walla/Rocks in Oregon. Yes agree elsewhere the value is much better.

[JBucholz]

Lots of interesting chatter here, the Seattle crew came out in droves. Where’s henry?

Henry?

[Brandon_R]

Lots of interesting chatter here, the Seattle crew came out in droves. Where’s henry?

Henry?

He’s a frequent poster on CT forums and a great guy who has attended a lot of the Seattle offlines. We love him and part of the color is that he routinely bashes Washington wines amidst a bunch of WA Wine lovers. He mostly rails against Washington Bordeaux varieties and how it’s way too hot to grow these varieties successfully in most regions in Washington. He’s WRONG, let it be known, but we still like him.

[john_stimson]

You know, I was going to jump in and contribute to the discussion, until I realized that I haven’t actually had a Napa wine in over 10 years…

[N1CKW0LF]

In Washington I lean towards Syrah, Merlot and Blends. Most of my cab purchases are still from Napa/Sonoma. Also, in Washington I have to be very selective otherwise you get the heavy oak, high alcohol and very primary type of wine.

This is the rap on a lot Washington wine I think, especially as a daily drinker. A lot need time in the cellar to keep from being too primary IMHO, but then they are great.

But agree with Brandon and Chris about Soos Creek and JB Neufeld cabs, and DeLille D2 (a blend) as places to start. I also like Long Shadows Feather (their cab), but like a little age on it.

DeLille D2 is great and we drink it regularly. Another blend I would recommend would be Gravura from Avennia.

[A_d_a_m_Mintz]

Are there any online Wine Retailers who specialize in Washington state wines? I’ve been getting more acquainted with Washington State from the mystery Garagiste wines and would like to explore more wineries. Looking for retailers who ship to California.

[Nick_van_der_Merwe]

Are there any online Wine Retailers who specialize in Washington state wines? I’ve been getting more acquainted with Washington State from the mystery Garagiste wines and would like to explore more wineries. Looking for retailers who ship to California.

I’ve used Avalon several times. Very reliable, and reasonably priced with case discounts.

Northwest Wine