My first Keller gmax

[Robert_Dentice]

I didn’t notice any overt botrytis but one person at table immediately said CSH VT when the rest of us were guessing CSH. This had tropical fruit but a lot of minerality, and did remind me of ripe vintage CSH.

Klaus-Peter commented on a tasting note I posted on another site for 06 G-Max that there was no botrytis.

“2006 was a difficult vintage but the wines develop very well. Yield was low and we did not accept any botrytis for the dry wines. Now - with some bottle age - we know that this was the right decision!”

[Jay_Miller]

I am sqrt(-1) on this

Imagine that…

Well played.

2006 sucks in Germany for Trocken Riesling
However Keller did best of all in this discipline
The 2006 G Max is great, but not 2000$ great. Actually the Morstein is better, IMO

The amazing 2006 Morstein GG sent me on a quest to buy their Morstein GG. Still haven’t succeeded. I have managed to buy some Keller Morstein Ausleses which are totally different but still fantastic.

[Sarah_Kirschbaum]

In what is sort of the flip side of Robert’s comment about how amazing and wonderful it is that the very pinnacle of dry Riesling is “only” $1000, as compared with many multiples that for the best in other regions, I’m moved to mention how exciting I think it is that a dry Riesling has found a regularly acknowledged place among the very great white wines of world by more than just a few Riesling geeks. Not that many years ago, I doubt many wine lovers’ Greatest White Wine lists would have had a Riesling at all, and certainly not a dry one.

[Alan_Rath]

I am happy you liked it. First all of G-Max is not really $2000. Because of the rarity of it yes there are few stupid examples of retailers trying to sell it for that and I am sure even a person or two that might have paid that for a certain vintage they wanted. Lets assume for this argument that it is a $1000 bottle of wine. What I like about it as a die hard dry Riesling geek it is nice to know that you can buy the rarest and possibly best example of the genre for that price. And of course the wines that are not G-Max but still in this league can be had for $100-200. In Burgundy this would be $4-5k for DRC Montrachet or Coche CC.

I would argue that a goodly number of equally excellent Riesling wines can be had for well under $100. Paying $2000, or even $1000 for G-Max can only be described as idiocy.

[Rich_K0rz_nk0]

Not unusual predominant themes here I see.

Red > white, or white > red, or red and white can get along… Its preferences and palates vary. I love well-aged Rieslings and they can hit notes on the spectrum that reds can’t for me, hence why I appreciate them. Reds, my fetish being Burg, can do things you will never find in whites. I appreciate both. Its is about your tastes and honestly your mood some times. So, I split there and I’m equal opportunity.

Now, where I think this all leads IMO, is it worth it? The case in point for Keller (and by extension anything in that magnitude because that’s the lot), I struggle with paying that much for any given wine. Like many on here, I feel I can find comparable quality at <3% the cost and I feel that way for QPR and I just like to explore. Then there’s just means, everyone’s wallets differ. There’s things I can splurge on sporadically, and thing’s I can’t. You don’t buy GMax off a Publix shelf. You gotta get out on the market and that leaves you open to counterfeits, bad bottles, bottle variation, shit years, pick something and I would absolutely have an aneurysm if I paid 3 Gs for a flawed bottle.

I like my sanity.

At a recent tasting of our SOBER group, our very generous host pulled out a 2006 gmax. It was a glorious wine, full flavored rich, but sporting serious acidity, and wonderful, detailed complexity. I loved the wine, certainly WOTN, and it had some pretty stiff competition, some predictable, some less so. An excellent pair of 1985s, a Lynch Bages from the good release and a Caymus, then a 1989 Mouton, a fine example from a period of coffee flavored wines, and a 1978 Mount Eden Pinot Noir which I was convinced was a superb Côte Rotie. Second wine of the night.

Getting back to the gmax, much as I loved it, I could not get away from the cost. Because we tasted it blind, most of the initial guesses were that it was a Clos St. Hune. When the reveal came, I started calculating. The best white I have had in years, and I would have been looking for this in the $200-300 range. But at around $2000, I would never pull the trigger, even after retasting it. I have bought reds in this price range but never a white, and great as it was, I admit to being color prejudiced. I buy whites for current drinking, since premox reared it’s ugly head, so am not used to having bottles with some cellar age and price. But even without the shadow of premox, even the greatest white wines do not have the appeal to me of the great reds.

Getting back to your impressions, you thought of a Clos St. Hune, did anything else enter your mind on palate? And being more specific toward price range, it was your WOTN, what else at a more reasonable pricing tier stack up to it that you may have thought of (QPR)? There’s a great deal in the 200 - 300 range, curious what else ranks there for you to calibrate.

[Tom_G_l_a_s_g_o_w]

Not unusual predominant themes here I see.

Red > white, or white > red, or red and white can get along… Its preferences and palates vary. I love well-aged Rieslings and they can hit notes on the spectrum that reds can’t for me, hence why I appreciate them. Reds, my fetish being Burg, can do things you will never find in whites. I appreciate both. Its is about your tastes and honestly your mood some times. So, I split there and I’m equal opportunity.

Now, where I think this all leads IMO, is it worth it? The case in point for Keller (and by extension anything in that magnitude because that’s the lot), I struggle with paying that much for any given wine. Like many on here, I feel I can find comparable quality at <3% the cost and I feel that way for QPR and I just like to explore. Then there’s just means, everyone’s wallets differ. There’s things I can splurge on sporadically, and thing’s I can’t. You don’t buy GMax off a Publix shelf. You gotta get out on the market and that leaves you open to counterfeits, bad bottles, bottle variation, shit years, pick something and I would absolutely have an aneurysm if I paid 3 Gs for a flawed bottle.

I like my sanity.

At a recent tasting of our SOBER group, our very generous host pulled out a 2006 gmax. It was a glorious wine, full flavored rich, but sporting serious acidity, and wonderful, detailed complexity. I loved the wine, certainly WOTN, and it had some pretty stiff competition, some predictable, some less so. An excellent pair of 1985s, a Lynch Bages from the good release and a Caymus, then a 1989 Mouton, a fine example from a period of coffee flavored wines, and a 1978 Mount Eden Pinot Noir which I was convinced was a superb Côte Rotie. Second wine of the night.

Getting back to the gmax, much as I loved it, I could not get away from the cost. Because we tasted it blind, most of the initial guesses were that it was a Clos St. Hune. When the reveal came, I started calculating. The best white I have had in years, and I would have been looking for this in the $200-300 range. But at around $2000, I would never pull the trigger, even after retasting it. I have bought reds in this price range but never a white, and great as it was, I admit to being color prejudiced. I buy whites for current drinking, since premox reared it’s ugly head, so am not used to having bottles with some cellar age and price. But even without the shadow of premox, even the greatest white wines do not have the appeal to me of the great reds.

Getting back to your impressions, you thought of a Clos St. Hune, did anything else enter your mind on palate? And being more specific toward price range, it was your WOTN, what else at a more reasonable pricing tier stack up to it that you may have thought of (QPR)? There’s a great deal in the 200 - 300 range, curious what else ranks there for you to calibrate.

Well if you think you can find G-Max quality for under $30 a bottle more power to you.

[David_Bu3ker]

It’s not under $30 (more like $50) but a Nigl Riesling Privat that I had late in 2018 was one of the single greatest wines of my life. It stopped me in my tracks, which is something I have experienced with very few wines, red or white.

[Tom_G_l_a_s_g_o_w]

It’s not under $30 (more like $50) but a Nigl Riesling Privat that I had late in 2018 was one of the single greatest wines of my life. It stopped me in my tracks, which is something I have experienced with very few wines, red or white.

I’m not disputing that there may be occasional examples, but as a regular occurrence? How many mature GMax have you had?

[David_Bu3ker]

Only a couple.

I had G Max before it became a thing. I thought it was good, but didn’t consider it some sine qua non of Riesling. I am generally not bowled over by Keller.

I have been blown away by other white wines, including Trimbach CSH Hors Choix, J. J. Christoffel Eiswein, J.J Prum Auslese, Muller Catoir Scheurebe Spatlese, Hirtzberger Singerriedel, etc.

[Tom_G_l_a_s_g_o_w]

Only a couple.

I had G Max before it became a thing. I thought it was good, but didn’t consider it some sine qua non of Riesling. I am generally not bowled over by Keller.

I have been blown away by other white wines, including Trimbach CSH Hors Choix, J. J. Christoffel Eiswein, J.J Prum Auslese, Muller Catoir Scheurebe Spatlese, Hirtzberger Singerriedel, etc.

Never Donnhoff? Careful.

[Kirk.Grant]

Since I can’t find/afford any GG’s…bought some 16 Von Der Fels Trocken. How’s it?

My understanding is that it’s the equivalent of a 1er to a GC. Many people I know respect and seek out this wine as it offers insane value compared to the GG’s in price; given that the quality is often so close to the Hubacker & Kirchspiel.

[David_Bu3ker]

Too predictable for me to mention it, so I specifically left it out.

But 2001 Niderhauser Hermannshohle Spatlese…1990 Niderhauser Hermannshohle Auslese…

[Kirk.Grant]

Getting back to your impressions, you thought of a Clos St. Hune, did anything else enter your mind on palate? And being more specific toward price range, it was your WOTN, what else at a more reasonable pricing tier stack up to it that you may have thought of (QPR)? There’s a great deal in the 200 - 300 range, curious what else ranks there for you to calibrate.

Rich,

I’ve had the 2007 G-Max and I have to say there are few that can rival it. However, if you wanted to taste something comparable I’d suggest that you try the Wittmann Brunnenhauschen Riesling Großes Gewächs or their Morstein Riesling Großes Gewächs. In fact, for anyone that wants to try something on-par with Keller I’d suggest that you seek out and pay the $74 for the 2014 Wittmann Morstein Riesling Großes Gewächs at JJ Buckley. For the price you’re paying it’s near the same ground, a fraction of the price, and well, well worth the cost. If that’s too high and you want to try something in the same realm…I’d go for the $60 2014 Wittmann Westhofener Aulerde Riesling Grosses Gewaechs also a JJ Buckley. Wittmann is a producer that’s going to follow in Keller’s footsteps in my mind. It’s like Roulot(Wittmann) to Coche (Keller) in my mind.

[Mark_Golodetz]

Getting back to your impressions, you thought of a Clos St. Hune, did anything else enter your mind on palate? And being more specific toward price range, it was your WOTN, what else at a more reasonable pricing tier stack up to it that you may have thought of (QPR)? There’s a great deal in the 200 - 300 range, curious what else ranks there for you to calibrate.

I hate using scores across regions, styles and type, but the gmax was a 97, a high score for me. But I would point to a ton of reds with the same type of score beginning with VCC 2009, 2015.

[Rich_K0rz_nk0]

Not unusual predominant themes here I see.

Red > white, or white > red, or red and white can get along… Its preferences and palates vary. I love well-aged Rieslings and they can hit notes on the spectrum that reds can’t for me, hence why I appreciate them. Reds, my fetish being Burg, can do things you will never find in whites. I appreciate both. Its is about your tastes and honestly your mood some times. So, I split there and I’m equal opportunity.

Now, where I think this all leads IMO, is it worth it? The case in point for Keller (and by extension anything in that magnitude because that’s the lot), I struggle with paying that much for any given wine. Like many on here, I feel I can find comparable quality at <3% the cost and I feel that way for QPR and I just like to explore. Then there’s just means, everyone’s wallets differ. There’s things I can splurge on sporadically, and thing’s I can’t. You don’t buy GMax off a Publix shelf. You gotta get out on the market and that leaves you open to counterfeits, bad bottles, bottle variation, shit years, pick something and I would absolutely have an aneurysm if I paid 3 Gs for a flawed bottle.

I like my sanity.

At a recent tasting of our SOBER group, our very generous host pulled out a 2006 gmax. It was a glorious wine, full flavored rich, but sporting serious acidity, and wonderful, detailed complexity. I loved the wine, certainly WOTN, and it had some pretty stiff competition, some predictable, some less so. An excellent pair of 1985s, a Lynch Bages from the good release and a Caymus, then a 1989 Mouton, a fine example from a period of coffee flavored wines, and a 1978 Mount Eden Pinot Noir which I was convinced was a superb Côte Rotie. Second wine of the night.

Getting back to the gmax, much as I loved it, I could not get away from the cost. Because we tasted it blind, most of the initial guesses were that it was a Clos St. Hune. When the reveal came, I started calculating. The best white I have had in years, and I would have been looking for this in the $200-300 range. But at around $2000, I would never pull the trigger, even after retasting it. I have bought reds in this price range but never a white, and great as it was, I admit to being color prejudiced. I buy whites for current drinking, since premox reared it’s ugly head, so am not used to having bottles with some cellar age and price. But even without the shadow of premox, even the greatest white wines do not have the appeal to me of the great reds.

Getting back to your impressions, you thought of a Clos St. Hune, did anything else enter your mind on palate? And being more specific toward price range, it was your WOTN, what else at a more reasonable pricing tier stack up to it that you may have thought of (QPR)? There’s a great deal in the 200 - 300 range, curious what else ranks there for you to calibrate.

Well if you think you can find G-Max quality for under $30 a bottle more power to you.

Wasn’t saying that, just that high-end Keller is what, like ~3 Gs as I understand. 10% of that is 300 dollars, 1% is 30 bucks * 3 (or 3%) is 90 bucks. I feel comfortable finding comparable QPR in German Riesling for within that realm, for me.

Wanted to help you with the math there. Or I can call my daughter to lend a hand.

[jcoley3]

Interesting. I’m the opposite.

Hard to beat a well aged white from d’Auvenay, Coche, or Roulot.

Would hate to do without reds but have to agree with you here.

I am +2 on william And Fred. If I compiled a top 10 all time wines I’ve consumed, white wine would be on the list more than red.

I am somewhat +3 (and sorry to delete PCLIN!).

While it wouldn’t quite match with my all-time “wines consumed” list, the most fascinating-and-amazing wine flights consumed from the time they’ve been poured to the times they have been finished have been white. Granted they have been the summit of White Burgundy, but they have been my most thrilling and illuminating wine experiences. In our group, they usually make an appearance with an early fish or veggie course and get pushed back to reappear warmer and more evolved with cheese late in the meal.

I love Riesling, but I have never had an experience from a top GG/top Spatlese that quite lived up to my best White Burgs.

[Rich_K0rz_nk0]

Getting back to your impressions, you thought of a Clos St. Hune, did anything else enter your mind on palate? And being more specific toward price range, it was your WOTN, what else at a more reasonable pricing tier stack up to it that you may have thought of (QPR)? There’s a great deal in the 200 - 300 range, curious what else ranks there for you to calibrate.

Rich,

I’ve had the 2007 G-Max and I have to say there are few that can rival it. However, if you wanted to taste something comparable I’d suggest that you try the Wittmann Brunnenhauschen Riesling Großes Gewächs or their Morstein Riesling Großes Gewächs. In fact, for anyone that wants to try something on-par with Keller I’d suggest that you seek out and pay the $74 for the 2014 Wittmann Morstein Riesling Großes Gewächs at JJ Buckley. For the price you’re paying it’s near the same ground, a fraction of the price, and well, well worth the cost. If that’s too high and you want to try something in the same realm…I’d go for the $60 2014 Wittmann Westhofener Aulerde Riesling Grosses Gewaechs also a JJ Buckley. Wittmann is a producer that’s going to follow in Keller’s footsteps in my mind. It’s like Roulot(Wittmann) to Coche (Keller) in my mind.

Thx Kirk,

Appreciate the recs and I will look in to them. To the point you can make recs in that style for the price points you mentioned, that’s kinda where I was headed. While you can’t deny that Gmax is in that 6 sigma range for the offering. you can have all that you mentioned that are not quite there yet warning track power and do so by the case or two for the price of one bottle of Gmax. I’ll take that all day and twice on Sunday.

Btw, I do believe we crossed paths back in time on the elfs boards, good to see you are doing well. Thx

[Martin_Zwick]

I took part at a G-Max verticlal 2001-2011 winter 2013 in Hamburg. Here are some notes in german, certainly Google will translate them for you.

Taste 2004 G-Max or 2017 G-Max, this will really blow your mind. 100/100

Rieslingvertikale: 11 Jahre Kellers G-Max – Weinlakai

Prost,
Martin

[Tom_G_l_a_s_g_o_w]

Not unusual predominant themes here I see.

Red > white, or white > red, or red and white can get along… Its preferences and palates vary. I love well-aged Rieslings and they can hit notes on the spectrum that reds can’t for me, hence why I appreciate them. Reds, my fetish being Burg, can do things you will never find in whites. I appreciate both. Its is about your tastes and honestly your mood some times. So, I split there and I’m equal opportunity.

Now, where I think this all leads IMO, is it worth it? The case in point for Keller (and by extension anything in that magnitude because that’s the lot), I struggle with paying that much for any given wine. Like many on here, I feel I can find comparable quality at <3% the cost and I feel that way for QPR and I just like to explore. Then there’s just means, everyone’s wallets differ. There’s things I can splurge on sporadically, and thing’s I can’t. You don’t buy GMax off a Publix shelf. You gotta get out on the market and that leaves you open to counterfeits, bad bottles, bottle variation, shit years, pick something and I would absolutely have an aneurysm if I paid 3 Gs for a flawed bottle.

I like my sanity.



Getting back to your impressions, you thought of a Clos St. Hune, did anything else enter your mind on palate? And being more specific toward price range, it was your WOTN, what else at a more reasonable pricing tier stack up to it that you may have thought of (QPR)? There’s a great deal in the 200 - 300 range, curious what else ranks there for you to calibrate.

Well if you think you can find G-Max quality for under $30 a bottle more power to you.

Wasn’t saying that, just that high-end Keller is what, like ~3 Gs as I understand. 10% of that is 300 dollars, 1% is 30 bucks * 3 (or 3%) is 90 bucks. I feel comfortable finding comparable QPR in German Riesling for within that realm, for me.

Wanted to help you with the math there. Or I can call my daughter to lend a hand.

No one quoted like $3,000 for GMax. OP mentioned $2,000; which others picked up on as a hypothetical price they wouldn’t pay. Robert Dentice, who drinks lots of high end Riesling and Kellrr, disputed the $2,000 as a typical price for GMax and quoted $1,000 as a more realistic price. Without making it clear, I based the $30 on the $1,000. I’ll admit it misrepresents your point.

However, to bring up a mythical $3,000 bottle in defense of your point is pretty lame.
We can both agree you’ll find some pretty nice Riesling at $90 and under, regardless of our argument.

[Mark_Golodetz]

Well if you think you can find G-Max quality for under $30 a bottle more power to you.

Wasn’t saying that, just that high-end Keller is what, like ~3 Gs as I understand. 10% of that is 300 dollars, 1% is 30 bucks * 3 (or 3%) is 90 bucks. I feel comfortable finding comparable QPR in German Riesling for within that realm, for me.

Wanted to help you with the math there. Or I can call my daughter to lend a hand.

No one quoted like $3,000 for GMax. OP mentioned $2,000; which others picked up on as a hypothetical price they wouldn’t pay. Robert Dentice, who drinks lots of high end Riesling and Kellrr, disputed the $2,000 as a typical price for GMax and quoted $1,000 as a more realistic price. Without making it clear, I based the $30 on the $1,000. I’ll admit it misrepresents your point.

However, to bring up a mythical $3,000 bottle in defense of your point is pretty lame.
We can both agree you’ll find some pretty nice Riesling at $90 and under, regardless of our argument.

I based my $2000 on Wine Searcher but I am delighted it can be had for less.