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[Michael_Martin]

@M. Dildine

@Peter Hirsch

So, if a ‘list’ means being able to buy the wine at the price it’s sold to the first buyers, I think few if any Calif wines are worth any real effort.

Here’s my list of wines worth an effort. They either come from the domaine or the direct importer at a 15% markup.

DRC
Roumier
Fourrier
Dujac
Meo (really just the Richebourg and Parantoux)
Rouget (Parantoux)
Mugnier
Leflaive (Chevalier and Montrachet)


Could be it…

Of course Burgundy is the only wine worthy of any effort. Unless, of course, you have a completely unsophisticated palate, like I suppose I do.

+1

[Jody_Smith]

@M Kelly

I think Peter is talking about the financial benefit and ease of acquisition, rather than the where the wine comes from. Last I checked Peter drinks some heavy duty Rhones and has a Marcassin WTB on commerce corner - he’s the last guy to claim burg supremacy (and the idiotic insinuations by some that burg is more intellectual).

I would love a consistent and fair allocation of Roumier and Rouget!

That’s how I read it as well. Peter, there are still a small handful of Cali wines that trade well above first tranche in the after market. Not DRC significant, but relevant enough for some of us.

Schrader mags at 400, for the '12 that haven’t even been delivered are showing a value >2k. The 07 mag at one point was trading at 4K (10x cost!).

Screagle regularly trades at 2-3x, which is an escalation of 800-1600 a bottle.

SQN’s EBAs triple in price immediately on delivery every year, regardless of vintage.

If you play in GC burgs, these numbers may seem trivial to you, but for some of us, a select group of Cali wines are worth buying direct for financial reasons.

[Nick_Gangas]

@Peter Hirsch

So, if a ‘list’ means being able to buy the wine at the price it’s sold to the first buyers, I think few if any Calif wines are worth any real effort.

Here’s my list of wines worth an effort. They either come from the domaine or the direct importer at a 15% markup.

DRC
Roumier
Fourrier
Dujac
Meo (really just the Richebourg and Parantoux)
Rouget (Parantoux)
Mugnier
Leflaive (Chevalier and Montrachet)


Could be it…

Hey great list Peter. Pretty much my list also except remove Fourrier and add Rousseau, Raveneau and Coche. Mmmmm I’m thirsty.

[Nick_Gangas]

@M. Dildine

@Peter Hirsch

So, if a ‘list’ means being able to buy the wine at the price it’s sold to the first buyers, I think few if any Calif wines are worth any real effort.

Here’s my list of wines worth an effort. They either come from the domaine or the direct importer at a 15% markup.

DRC
Roumier
Fourrier
Dujac
Meo (really just the Richebourg and Parantoux)
Rouget (Parantoux)
Mugnier
Leflaive (Chevalier and Montrachet)


Could be it…

Of course Burgundy is the only wine worthy of any effort. Unless, of course, you have a completely unsophisticated palate, like I suppose I do.

Exactly ! Finally you get it.

[Peter_Hirsch]

Yep. Forgot Rousseau!
No Burg bias as I drink wine from many regions. Just the financial issue, the jump in price from direct pricing to the secondary market. With a few exceptions. (Sqn, etc), burg is the best for this…

[Mark_Mason]

Any thoughts on Next of Kyn? I don’t hear much about SQN’s second label here.

[Alan_Eden]

Do Burg lists work the same way as Cali lists ?

[Kirk.Grant]

@Peter Hirsch

Yep. Forgot Rousseau!
No Burg bias as I drink wine from many regions. Just the financial issue, the jump in price from direct pricing to the secondary market. With a few exceptions. (Sqn, etc), burg is the best for this…

Peter,

How do you get access to buy directly from the importers living in the US? I live in Maine and almost everything comes at an intense mark-up. If you have any connections you’d be willing to share that would allow access to some of the better Burgs I’d really appreciate it.

Thanks, Kirk

[Peter_Hirsch]

Kirk,
To get access and the better prices, you need to buy ‘en primeur’ each Jan/Feb in the UK. That’s when the various UK importers offer out the latest vintage. You’re going to have to start small and build up over 5-10 years. Easy enough to find the various importers/merchants, the names are well known. Then you get storage at Octavian and hire a consolidator/importer to bring the wine back to the US for you.

You have to buy each year to stay in the rotation, and you’re probably in luck as a number of people who have been doing this may drop out given the 2013 vintage. So if you’re willing to buy '13, you can get in the rotation to buy '14 and beyond…

[johannes.c]

@Peter Hirsch

So, if a ‘list’ means being able to buy the wine at the price it’s sold to the first buyers, I think few if any Calif wines are worth any real effort.

Here’s my list of wines worth an effort. They either come from the domaine or the direct importer at a 15% markup.

DRC
Roumier
Fourrier
Dujac
Meo (really just the Richebourg and Parantoux)
Rouget (Parantoux)
Mugnier
Leflaive (Chevalier and Montrachet)


Could be it…

Good list, but if you really take it to the extreme, then Coche Dury, Roumier and Rousseau are the real deals. If you can get Coche Dury, Roumier and Rousseau either directly from the domaines or ‘honest’ distributors, then their prices are unbeatable:

Coche Perrieres and Corton Charlemagne for under 100 and 200 euro respectively
Roumier, last I paid for Bonnes Mares (2011) was 150 euro
Rousseau’s Chambertin and Clos de Beze for under 200 euro, the CSJ for under 150

Leflaive’s Montrachet is well over 1,000 euro and with 300 or so bottles made near impossible to get (I say near impossible, as I bought one from the official retailer last month). But it is not normally available for sale, it’s highly allocated.

Fourrier makes great wines, so does Rouget (not just Parantoux but also Echezeaux and Beaumonts, a recent 2010 Beaumonts was stellar). Prices are already higher than Rousseau and Roumier and therefore excluded from my top three of best values above. Same applies to Mugnier.

DRC: great wines obviously, but prices to match. For one bottle of Conti you could have 15 Rousseau Chambertin’s… So from a value perspective, I would again say Rousseau Chambertin… But good luck getting 15 bottles

And Conti obviously is Conti… The jewel in the crown.

One other big name missing on the list: Comte Liger Belair…

[Howard_Cooper]

@Peter Hirsch

Yep. Forgot Rousseau!
No Burg bias as I drink wine from many regions. Just the financial issue, the jump in price from direct pricing to the secondary market. With a few exceptions. (Sqn, etc), burg is the best for this…

Peter, I understand what you meant. I think anyone who can read English and doesn’t come into the thread with a chip on their shoulders can understand what you meant. Thanks.

The only thing you did not add is how to get on these lists.

[Peter_Hirsch]

Johannes. I’ve actually never seen a bottle of Leflaive ‘Montrachet’! Wow, that would be great to just see (let alone drink someday!). Love your list and that seems right. Hard to beat Rousseau, Coche Dury, Roumier when buying from an importer where you pay a ‘reasonable’ markup.

Howard. Yep. Only way I know to get on the lists, at least the importer/retailer lists, is time. Buy the same wines from the same guys over a decade or so, and slowly move up the hierarchy as others move out. As someone on the ‘downside’ of this trade, I’m sure there are others who are going to be happy to fill my slot! I used to buy from so many of the London guys, now basically down to one…

[alan_weinberg]

@Jay Carroll

@Brian G r a f s t r o m

I’d be willing to be that DRC’s list is a tough nut to crack.

Surprisingly easy, but they wanted a 100K deposit so I had to pass…

wow, I had to give them my first born son.

[Jay_T]

@Peter Hirsch

Kirk,
To get access and the better prices, you need to buy ‘en primeur’ each Jan/Feb in the UK. That’s when the various UK importers offer out the latest vintage. You’re going to have to start small and build up over 5-10 years. Easy enough to find the various importers/merchants, the names are well known. Then you get storage at Octavian and hire a consolidator/importer to bring the wine back to the US for you.

You have to buy each year to stay in the rotation, and you’re probably in luck as a number of people who have been doing this may drop out given the 2013 vintage. So if you’re willing to buy '13, you can get in the rotation to buy '14 and beyond…

Peter, could you (or someone else) provide a list of UK importers that have good access to top names in Burgundy en primeur? We may operate in different circles, but their names are not well known to me. For example, is Berry Bros. & Rudd one of them?

Thanks!

[John_Morris]

@Alan eden

Do Burg lists work the same way as Cali lists ?

No. Since they use conventional distribution channels for the most part (and Americans can’t easily purchase directly from any foreign producer because of customs rules), you typically have to have a good relationship with a retailer to get top Burgundies that are in short supply. And that usually means that you buy lots of other expensive things from the retailer on a regular basis.

[Brian_Zamkotowicz]

Lewelling is a weird one. Waiting 5+ years on that one, but its easily available at retail.

[Scott_Butler]

@Jody Smith

Screagle appears to have a longer wait than SQN.

.

I signed up for both about 6 years ago, maybe 7. I got offered Screagle last year and passed. No sniff from SQN.

[Joe_B]

@Scott Butler

@Jody Smith

Screagle appears to have a longer wait than SQN.

.

I signed up for both about 6 years ago, maybe 7. I got offered Screagle last year and passed. No sniff from SQN.

Seriously?

[Scott_Butler]

@Joe B

@Scott Butler

@Jody Smith

Screagle appears to have a longer wait than SQN.

.

I signed up for both about 6 years ago, maybe 7. I got offered Screagle last year and passed. No sniff from SQN.

Seriously?

Yes sir. What surprised you, the Screagle part or the SQN part?

[Scott_G_r_u_n_e_r]

If you guys signed up for SQN and are not getting postcards, then you didn’t actually sign up.