What kind of advice could have been followed to defray the fact that the median home price in Seattle has doubled in the past 5 years to almost a million dollars coupled with a 40 year trend of wage suppression? Isn’t going to an affordable college, studying something marketable, working hard, and living within your means “the harder road” you’re talking about?
The world today is just a fundamentally different, harder place than it was even 20 years ago. Class mobility is at an all time low.
Just a note for the UI website for instate students they say $31,390-$36,394. The big problem is the introduction of wine. I was only introduced to good stuff because dad is in a tasting group who let me in. It hard to try get the magic of wine if you can’t taste some of those good to great wine. It hard to just throw down 30+ on a bottle that may or may not be good
16-21k in tuition and fees. This does not cover dorm, food, books which pushes it way past 30k.
That figure includes $11,000 room, board and $900 for health insurance. Just to be clear.
Going to college fully paid with no financial aid and no need for a part time job, etc is … a nice spot to be in. Lots of us never were there.
Tuition:
https://registrar.illinois.edu/tuition-fees/tuition-fee-rates/ug-base-rates-1819/
College is one of those things… Getting to a good expensive school if you can get into one is something you absolutely should take and is worth taking loans out for if you get it. I went to a very good public school (UC Davis baby) and went to an Ivy League for my masters. The career paths of a typical UC Davis student to the typical person coming out an Ivy League is just very very different, and I guess the savings from 4 years of college outweigh your lifetime potential earnings. Of course, there are always exceptions but just in general, there’s a huge difference. College is just as much an experience as it is an education, and the friends, memories, and network you make freshman year and sophomore year are arguably worth that difference of going to community college.
College is like many other things - I’d say the extremes of candidates / colleges are in a good spot in 2019, but the middle is where things have gotten squeezed.
If your family is between middle class and low income and you are smart enough / work hard enough to get into a top school, you probably will pay close to $0 and you have the opportunity for incredible social mobility. I think for this category of individual, 2019 is the best time to be going to college - tons of financial aid opportunities at the top schools, and top schools are much more meritocratic than they once were.
If your family is very wealthy, then you are likely to both have the background to get into a good school + your parents will have the means to easily pay the full price.
If you are a middle-achieving student and your family is middle class, then you will have a tough time. You’ll get into relatively mediocre schools and still end up paying $30K+/yr all in to attend. And your job opportunities will likely be mediocre as well, making it difficult to pay off the debt you probably took out.
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Joe and I are opposite ends of of the political spectrum - him right, me left - but I suspect Joe will ask you the same question that I will:
Why Seattle?
Sure, killer town. Many other towns have not experienced that sort of inflation. My town, Orlando, has seen some increases over the 5 year cycle, but average home prices are still down from 2008 prices, just 10 years ago. Orlando has a strong economy, a youthful professional community, is great for starting families, no state income taxes, etc. Hard to feel bad here - or buy into this concept of the world being so fundamentally different and harder for you, when perhaps you have made a lifestyle choice that just happens to cost more. I have lived in Miami, Atlanta and San Fran, post-law school had offers in SF, NYC, Chicago and some others, but specifically chose Orlando for growth opportunity and cost of living. While sure, San Fran would have been super cool those budding years, so was Miami, but it was obvious that long-term would be a problem with cost of living. And traffic.
My advice would have been, pick a more affordable city. Of course, I say that in a vacuum, without know why you chose that city over any other. I get that there may be ties that wedded you there. But if not, then you simply chose a super expensive city.
I cannot speak to a “40-year trend of wage suppression” as I have no idea what you do. Not all fields and careers have been down or stagnant. Many have been up, some up in a big way.
No doubt the middle-class gets the squeeze on college expenses, but I wonder the rest of what you say. Perhaps it depends on your geographic region, but not all regions recruit only from Ivy or top-tier state schools. Having lived and worked in some southern states - Florida and Georgia - and the state school grads have way better than mediocre opportunites. Heck, half of my associates are from FSU and UF, neither of which are top 25 law schools. At least in law, while school quality does indeed matter, your class ranking can make a huge difference. A top 5%-10% grad at FSU, a 47th ranked law school, will get a killer, high-paying job. That kid also likely qualified for Florida bright futures scholarships paid for by the lottery, giving him/her free tuition. Not saying its easier coming from the middle, but I do not agree with the mediocrity comment. Mediocrity is what you make of any opportunity. Winners will win regardless.
I agree with Alfert. I think there are opportunities at the very prestigious schools to have doors opened. But that does not in any way mean that a motivated, with-it individual will have to settle for mediocrity. I work in science, my company recruits nationally (actually, internationally) and we look for talent. Then, it is performance. There are all kinds of opportunities. Assuming science is not viewed as a loser career in the first place.
Of course, it’s really your first year grades and that’s a total of 8 tests. That’s a good amount of luck/variation, which matters a lot less at a top school. It’s an interesting debate.
We “picked” Seattle for a host of personal/family reasons (on top of professional) that I won’t get into but do keep us here for the near term, in addition to the fact that this is where our professional networks are. We’ve kicked around the idea of bailing for a long time and we might at some point if current family-related anchors dissipate. I understand that if we moved to Omaha or Cincinnati or something we’d probably have an easier time of it but the idea of having to move cross-country away from all my friends, family, and professional network just to afford a starter house is absolutely a recent phenomenon, at least in the postwar era, even including many of the most expensive cities. I’ve lived in the PNW my whole adult life and have very deep roots here, and the fact that a married couple who are a real estate developer with a masters degree and someone in investment finance can’t afford a 1000 sq ft junker without a loan from the parents isn’t normal in this country, historically speaking, unless you’re talking Manhattan.
I mean, I’m certain you’re right that if I moved to Orlando I could probably afford a house no problem, but that’s not a tradeoff i’m willing to make, and 15 years ago i would never have had to make.
Did you miss the, “in the past 5 years?” He did pick a more affordable city!
(Putting aside, for the moment, that by suggesting he/whoever move you’re acknowledging he’s right about the underlying problem.)
Remember that old one about, “… if neither is with you, pound on the table!”?
The anecdotal ‘support’? (“My associates are doing great,” “I see state school kids making it,” etc., etc.) That’s you pounding on the table.
A bit surprising how much discussion can be ignited by this heading and the linked article. The “article” actually seems more like a conversation over lunch with an marketing focused “banker” who in knee deep in his own B.S. :
“We have to figure out how to engage this young consumer without money,” McMillan said. “You look at the models that are working right now, and it’s all experience-based. You can go to a bar that’s got ax-throwing or billiards or any activities you want. And for cocktails, you have mixologists. They make drinks with flair. It’s entertaining. Wine doesn’t have anything like that.”
How can anyone read that and not laugh out loud! I admit to being an “old fart” (and that’s what’s going to happen to you if you get to hang around long enough), but this strikes me as laughable nonsense. Maybe its just me . . . I know some on this forum (many?) are ITB and even winemakers, and maybe this resonates with them. But I do see a lot of reassuring wisdom popping up in the comments on this thread from all generations. Hang in there one and all.
When I moved to Seattle, it was affordable, but my wife was in grad school so we we didn’t have any way to save a down payment so there’s that, too. To take it away from the “i will miss my friends” sentiment, the opportunity for fulfilling work in our fields is not equal in all cities either, unfortunately. That was the only reason we left Portland, which we loved, so we’ve made the mercenary economic move once before and it’s not an experience I’m that eager to repeat, emotionally.
To bring it back to wine, though, I do think my peers are getting into wine, just in a different way. Natural wine jibes with a lot of their sensibilities, and its usually considerably more affordable than traditionally-defined “fine wine”, so that seems like where a lot of their wine $$ are going. We kind of came up through the traditional route so thats sort of how our palates are calibrated, but if you didn’t start there it’s hard to think you’re “missing out” by not being able to afford Palmer or whatever.
Illinois Resident. Tuition & Fees: $16,004-$21,008; Room & Board: $11,308; Books & Supplies: $1,200; Other Expenses: $2,500. Total: $31,012-$36,016
Examples and counter-points are not pounding on the table, they are just that, examples and counter-points. Discussion.
Like many things in life, the answer is more in the middle, not the extremes we are hearing.
Occam’s Razor, sort of.
I’ll jump in here as a 29 yo who moved to Seattle 2.5 years ago.
Seattle has plenty of affordable housing if you chose not to live in the hip areas, i.e go north or south of the city. Why not live in a less desirable or up and coming area for a few years, fix up the house in the process and then cash in? It’s not sexy, you do need to make some sacrifices, it will require hard work but dam it’s rewarding.
Back on track, all of my friends are completely clueless when it comes to wine but do appreciate good wine along with good food. Most would never even fathom spending more than $30 on a bottle, not because they are cheap but more so because they have had there fair share of experiences of drinking really bad wine at that price point. To me that’s the problem. Unless your pretty savvy or spend some time on forums such as this you have a high probability of buying some pretty terrible stuff.
Like moving to Orlando, moving out of the city center isn’t a neutral money-only decision. Traffic is terrible in Seattle, and everything I do in my life is in the core of the city. Adding an extra 2 hours to my daily commute plus having to drive everywhere isn’t really tenable and is also a recent phenomenon. Even houses in South Park and White Center aren’t affordable anymore, though if I’m being honest the prices have slowed in the last couple months.
Jesus Christ, it’s scary - bordering on terrifying - the extent to which Boomers & Silents are utterly detached from reality.
As though it’s still 1961 & JFK is still president & Cal-Berkeley is still a free ride & Charles Krug still costs $1.49 a bottle.
At least Millennials know that they’re nuts.
But Boomers & Silents are just too damned arrogant for that thought to ever cross their minds.