Heath-you may be able to move the wines, but many producers in those 2 regions have lost the soul of what they were. They are no longer wines that represent their regions/terroir, they are caricatures.
Heath, I imagine you have no problem moving Yellowtail or Kung Fu Girl or the like either. I interpret Mark’s post to say that Parker’s personal taste and ratings influenced St. Em and CdP producers to make wines that pleased his palate and the American palate which were riper, sweeter and more alcoholic.
Jurgen,
I bet La Louviere can evolve/change for the next 50 years. Bordeaux in general can last almost forever if kept in proper condition as you know.
Based on my experiences tasting wines with European critics, I don’t believe that American “coca cola drinking” palate is somehow different than Europeans. A lot of Europeans also love big ripe wines. Even the 17% CDPs are loved by some of the northern Europeans.
And plenty of Americans like more restrained wines. One of the more inaccurate stereotypes floating around.
You mean there’s a Pro-Flavor Bourgeoisie Brigade in Europe? I guess they don’t all like crusty old east facing Bolivian crushed limestone.
Kevin,
here we agree – and this is clear based on experience 
If I may take St. Emilion as an example, but the wines being produced there are now very different to the wines made in the period leading up to the mid nineties. Much of the “credit” goes to the consultants Derenoncourt and Rolland, who changed the paradigm of what a St. Emilion should be.
It begins with picking much riper grapes, lowering acidity (Parker has always disliked acidic wines; this can be seen early on his career when he gave Rovani all the high acid regions such as Loire, Germany etc) higher alcohol wines and big fruit with a corresponding loss of balance and elegance.
St Emilion has a new appellation every ten years. In the last one, two wines Pavie and Angelus both of which epitomize Parker’s style were promoted to stand alongside Cheval Blanc and Ausone. Traditionally made wines were left unchanged. There are very few of these wines left in St. Emilion, and they are getting fewer by the year. Maybe that will change now that Neal Martin is writing about Bordeaux. But Figeac has gone, a victim of the 2012 reclassification, Canon is changing. Economics dictate that you make wines you can sell easily; catering to Parker’s likes, means that you can sell the wines for a lot of money. Whether you like them or not, it has changed the character of the wines of St. Emilion.
As I said earlier, there are plenty of people who like these wines, and Pavie sells well not only in the primary market but the secondary one, so it is not just lemmings following Parker, there is genuine interest in these wines. But for me, and many others, watching the old fashioned wines disappear, this is a major tragedy.
I’m from Europe. Sometimes I get the urge for a power-house wine, in other occasions, it’s the old, classic elegant cedar and leathery Pauillac, I need to drink.
Parker surely liked the concentrated wines. I remember the 1990 Troplong Mondot, and Beausejour Duffau-Lagarosse getting the 100pts, and the prices for these “normal” wines went bananas. They both had made abnormal super concentrated wines, and was awarded with high points, and some after-marked prices, that made the chateaux envy.
Something to think about for all wine producers.
Same thing happened again, in the 1998 vintage. The garagiste St emil. and Pomerols, all produced wine more concentrated than ever before. And some of the older chateaux gave it a shot. (Pavies, Monbousquet, Pape Clement a.o.) -Parker couldn’t get his hands down, and the release pricing, was now sky high, because of the ratings.
I know this is only a little part of the whole story, about the changes of style, in Bordeaux (and burg/Rhone, as well), but I think RP played a big role in this.
Regards, Soren.
I am sorry to see how this thread developed. I did not intend for it to be the 3,000th installment in the Parker-is-the-devil saga, or an opportunity to resurrect the coca cola libel yet again. I just wanted to not that a wine left for dead decades ago actually is alive and well.
Neal,
I appreciate your TN. I think most of the 78s are live and kicking.
I think most red wines are alive and kicking…at surprisingly old ages.
And, when they supposedly aren’t…it’s often due to poor handling from the opened bottle to the glass that simulates moribund wine.
Though at this point I scoff at all the “professional” tasters’ notes, I have long scoffed at “drinking windows”. I have never had any clue what those people were talking about .
Clive Coates particularly baffled me when I was reading him.
Heath, I imagine you have no problem moving Yellowtail or Kung Fu Girl or the like either. I interpret Mark’s post to say that Parker’s personal taste and ratings influenced St. Em and CdP producers to make wines that pleased his palate and the American palate which were riper, sweeter and more alcoholic.[/quote]
hahaha …Jeff , I’m sure those wines make money for order takers all over the US but I’m not one of them ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
@ Mark - Thank you. My response is that change is inevitable , and tastes go in and out of vogue. The lower alcohol , higher acidity thing is in full force from what I’m seeing out there from a good number of wineries and individual preferences. People seem to have moved away from the bigger styled wines that many of you loathe Parker for , and are now searching for balance. I understand what your saying , but nothing stays the same in wine or life(I had the 82 Figeac BTW , a beautiful wine) and in the end the winemaker has to sell his wine.
And now you are bringing vulgar commerce into our ivory tower existence. ![[snort.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/b/bdc3944606213c4dca6c1169cf0a166c8bc4f8c9.gif "snort.gif"){kind=small}
![[rofl.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/a/a7452fcd8e675af869f8da01174474a545b03944.gif "rofl"){kind=small}
Where do I start with this nonsense? 
Changed St. Emilion from what it should have been? Seriously? Even in 1982, you can probably count on one hand the number of estates making great wine in St. Emilion. Today, how many of those wines are still going strong? Today, clearly that is not the case. Each vintage allows new estates to come to the forefront. That is a trend that has been going on since 1989.
As to what St. Emilion should be… I cannot believe you can make that comment with a straight face. I know we share zero commonalities when it comes to wine. IMO, St. Emilion is the most exciting region in all of Bordeaux today. That does not mean the best, but the new estates pushing the quality envelope and the forward thinking producers in Bordeaux are clearly in St. Emilion.
It begins with picking much riper grapes, lowering acidity (Parker has always disliked acidic wines; this can be seen early on his career when he gave Rovani all the high acid regions such as Loire, Germany etc) higher alcohol wines and big fruit with a corresponding loss of balance and elegance.
Another silly comment. Parker brought in Rovani to lighten his workload and Bob held on to the regions he preferred. It was that simple. Higher alcohol denotes riper fruit, not a loss of balance and elegance.
St Emilion has a new appellation every ten years. In the last one, two wines Pavie and Angelus both of which epitomize Parker’s style were promoted to stand alongside Cheval Blanc and Ausone.
That was called a new classification, not a new appellation. ![[stirthepothal.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/f/f40faec63ca1018898a40805efbf9f0066a3d205.gif "[stirthepothal.gif]"){kind=small}
Traditionally made wines were left unchanged. There are very few of these wines left in St. Emilion, and they are getting fewer by the year.
Yes, more producers are actually making wine from ripe fruit, lower yields, more selection and better farming techniques with more estates leaning to organic and biodynamic farming all the time. Sorry, but that is the best thing that could happen to the region.
Canon is changing.
Yes, Canon has changed, and this is another estate that has moved in the right direction. With the 2015 vintage, Canon has made the best wine in the history of the estate!
As I said earlier, there are plenty of people who like these wines, and Pavie sells well not only in the primary market but the secondary one, so it is not just lemmings following Parker, there is genuine interest in these wines. But for me, and many others, watching the old fashioned wines disappear, this is a major tragedy.
On that, we agree.
Sigh
Neal, the next time you post a rational conversation topic I’m going to chastise you on page 2 or 3 for starting the usual Berserker disagreement. You feign innocence, but we all know what you’re really up to, you .
If the La Louviere can come back from the dead, maybe Michael Jordan has one more return to the court left !!!
[quote=“Jeff Leve”]
As to what St. Emilion should be… I cannot believe you can make that comment with a straight face. I know we share zero commonalities when it comes to wine. IMO, St. Emilion is the most exciting region in all of Bordeaux today. That does not mean the best, but the new estates pushing the quality envelope and the forward thinking producers in Bordeaux are clearly in St. Emilion.
Not only do I make the comments with a straight face, but I stand by them. I know your taste runs to big, fat, rich gloopy wines that boast alcohol that is far too high with seldom enough acidity to balance them. By all means drink them, but don’t foist them on the rest of us, claiming that St. Emilion is in some golden age. It is very definitely not; and as Parker leaves the scene, I have no doubt some of the owners will be shaking heads wondering what the hell were they thinking. The lucky few possess terroir good enough to cope with the consultant manipulation, most can’t, and the wines are most overbearing and hard to enjoy. Certainly they bear absolutely no resemblance to the great Saint Emilions of the past.
As for using “ripe” fruit, this keeps being trotted out over several years as justification for later and later picking. The problem is that the definition of ripeness has changed in the last few years, and the result is 16.5% plus wines in Bordeaux! Yes, part of it is attributable to global warming, but Rolland and company have redefined ripeness, and all in the interest of making wines that can garner huge scores, and are pretty well undrinkable.
It begins with picking much riper grapes, lowering acidity (Parker has always disliked acidic wines; this can be seen early on his career when he gave Rovani all the high acid regions such as Loire, Germany etc) higher alcohol wines and big fruit with a corresponding loss of balance and elegance.
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Another silly comment. Parker brought in Rovani to lighten his workload and Bob held on to the regions he preferred. It was that simple. Higher alcohol denotes riper fruit, not a loss of balance and elegance.
Don’t be naive; Parker’s “preferences” are for wines with low acid.
St Emilion has a new appellation every ten years. In the last one, two wines Pavie and Angelus both of which epitomize Parker’s style were promoted to stand alongside Cheval Blanc and Ausone.
That was called a new classification, not a new appellation.
Old timers disease
Traditionally made wines were left unchanged. There are very few of these wines left in St. Emilion, and they are getting fewer by the year.
Yes, more producers are actually making wine from ripe fruit, lower yields, more selection and better farming techniques with more estates leaning to organic and biodynamic farming all the time. Sorry, but that is the best thing that could happen to the region.
Canon is changing.
Yes, Canon has changed, and this is another estate that has moved in the right direction. With the 2015 vintage, Canon has made the best wine in the history of the estate!
Haven’t tasted it, but I suspect if you like it I won’t.
The only part of this post I agree with is when you corrected me on classification, otherwise Jeff, the nonsense is all yours.