I can understand the concept of wanting consumers to be able to drink your wine at the release price rather than some inflated multiple of that. Theoretically, that allows more people who can’t afford secondary market pricing access to the wine. Though with some of these producers the DTC price is already stratospheric.
I’m not so sure that’s the real or sole motivation but I’m no mind reader.
It’s more the utter absurdity of wanting to control consumer behavior after you have sold them something. I’m completely with Vincent on this - it’s a level of ego and control issues that are troubling. I get that it’s not a popular take, but doing what Screagle did and raising release prices to match the open market is a much more reasonable response to wanting to minimize flipping.
I have zero interest in being on this particular winery’s list in any event, but knowing about this would make me steer clear of any winery that did this. Their rationale is ridiculous anyway. They tell the OP that they want to people on their list who drink the wines, but this is really about their resentment over someone on the list making money off flipping. There’s just as much reason to believe that whoever purchases a flipped bottle will either consume it or re-flip it as there is with a list member original purchase.
Wilson Daniels had a DRC tasting of the 23’s in Southern California the other day. I saw pics from the event and all of the bottle numbers were blacked out. I went around this in my head countless times since, and I cannot understand why the assigned importer would remove bottle numbers from bottles being opened and poured for top accounts.
While this is not directly related to Justin’s Marcassin tale, the WD & Marcassin decisions represent the irrational desire to control secondary markets by producers/importers and causes them (to me) to act against their own interests. 99% of wine produced has little to no secondary market value. The wineries that have it should feel blessed, as there is no more important hedge to market corrections and a guarantee of long-term sustainability. Raise prices as much as you want, but don’t shoot the forces that put your product in the most revered category.
I get the feeling, I just don’t see how acting to control things is healthy behavior. Humans have lots of passionate feelings, many justified. I guess I’ve learned that acting on those feelings isn’t always smart or even good for us. Maybe it’s the cost of success.
If a winery has distribution to restaurants and someone is selling their wine at or to a restaurant that wasn’t approved to sell the wine then yes I could see why they would review who is flipping their wine to remove them from the list. Sour apples for getting caught.
I ageee with the above posts. I don’t think it’s healthy behavior, financially or psychologically. Just repeating what I’ve heard said in support of it.
Justin, I had a similar event happen with DRC back in early 2005. DRC told Wilson Daniels not to sell DRC to grocery stones, in Arizona it was AJ’s Fine Food. The sad thing was I was drinking these bottles with friends, not flipping. They agreed to sell me 1 bottle of 2005 La Tache. Cost was under $700.00
I did not realize that Marcassin knew that the internet exists.
Does that mean that the winery believes Justin is selling their wine in his restaurant? Could that be the real reason they are upset?
Raising the price to match, the secondary market is punitive to your long time customers who buy it to drink it. I don’t understand how you think that is a more acceptable solution.
The wines ordered for the restaurant were from their licensed distributor and did not come with any disclaimers. They were purchased as I would purchase any wine from any distributor. Marcassin has never been a customer friendly winery and I stayed on their mailing list for many years as I enjoyed their chards (their pinots IMO are borderline undrinkable). If they spent even a fraction of the time communicating with their customers rather than trolling wine boards looking for flippers, imagine how much more of a loyal client list they’d have.
It may not be illegal but there is something shady about buying wine from distributors for a restaurant and then selling it online at higher prices. Not illegal, just on the shady side. I could see how that annoys the winery.
Because it gives nefarious individuals more information when creating fake labels. I was at a very small private WD event and no bottle numbers were blacked out. I assume it was done in this case more for social media and distribution.
Fixed it for myself
Flipping wines isn’t what I would call loyal. Loyal would be buying to drink and enjoy. As you noted above, you’ll cross them off your list.
Wines in high demand are going to move on to the next buyer and not flinch even in a tough market.
Yes that’s a good point. Distributors can put pressure on a producer - or just the bad vibes are there - but man I’d hate to spend my day tracking down scofflaws like I’m a prison guard. Again, maybe that’s one cost of success. You can have it, if so. I just want to make and sell my wines and live. God help me if I ever find myself doing any of that stuff.
Good point. It solves one problem - flipping. And creates another - everyone pays the higher price. Sort of like a grade school situation where teacher makes the whole class miss something because the one person who didn’t something wrong won’t own up to it. It’s a bad way to go.
How about proof of consumption? You have to send a photo including the daily newspaper, the open bottle, and you drinking the wine.
I don’t know that they have people monitoring message boards. More likely somebody who’s been frustrated waiting for years to be on the list tipped them off. I would imagine that happens.
I’m guessing like David said below that someone narc’d him out but we do know many wineries cruise the board and read what is going on.
I’m not in the biz but I can only imagine how pissed distributors would be seeing wine show up someplace its not supposed to when they are supporting competing restaurants. Business is cutthroat.