Are there any alternatives near St. Louis? I googled wine storage the, and Domaine was the only name that came up. From experience, I know how difficult it is to store wine remotely, but totally agree with Andy, get the wine out. The question is how, where and how quickly.
Mark:
Iāve been reaching out to people trying to find out if there are any wine storage alternatives in St. Louis. So far, Iām not aware of any dedicated wine storage facilities. There are some cold storage facilities in St. Louis who do offer some custom warehousing (e.g. Coldco Logistics, Atlas Cold Storage), but that may only be viable for people with very large wine collections. I know nothing about whatās available or rates.
Iāve also been in touch with the owner of the building in Richmond Heights (Wade Paschall) where Domaine Wine Storage was formerly located. The storage cages and cooling equipment have been removed, but the building is still vacant and the basement storage is vacant. Mr. Paschal has been attempting to sell the building.
I also went back and looked at the statutes dealing with the underlying liquor laws violations. Even if Mr. Lazar somehow gets past the business license and certificate of occupancy issues with the City of St. Louis, he will still face what appears to be a mandatory nuisance prosecution by the prosecutorās office if he is convicted of selling wine without a license. Missouri Revised Statutes Section 311.770.1 provides as follows:
- āIn case the existence of any place where intoxicating liquors are manufactured or sold in violation of law is disclosed in any criminal proceedings, it shall be the duty of the prosecuting attorney to proceed promptly to enforce the provisions of this law against such place as a nuisance.ā
The wording of this statute makes the prosecution of a separate nuisance action mandatory following conviction for unlicensed sale. Section 311.750.2 also provides in pertinent part that:
- āon finding that the material allegations of the petition are true, the court shall order that no liquors shall be manufactured, sold, bartered, stored or kept in any such room, house, building, boat, vehicle, structure or place, or any part thereof. And upon such judgment of the court ordering said nuisance to be abated, the court may order that the room, house, building, boat, vehicle, structure or place, shall not be occupied or used for such period as the court may determine, not to exceed the period of one yearā¦ā
Missouri Revised Statute Section 311.740.1 also provides that āany person who maintains or assists in maintaining such public and common nuisance shall be guilty of a misdemeanor.ā This apparently includes the owner of the real property where intoxicating liquors are being illegally sold.
Given that the duty to prosecute the nuisance action is mandatory where there is a conviction for illegal sale of intoxicating liquor in the State of Missouri, I suspect that the issue about the continued operation of the Domaine St. Louis facility is not going to go away anytime soon.
Lazarās place was the only one Iām aware of from the other side of the state.
I live in St. Louis. I am not aware of any place for wine storage here other than Domaine. Which is why my wine is in Chicago.
Peterās point is valid, that this is the evaluation everyone must make for themselves. Iāve been personally nervous, but it wasnāt quite enough to send me over the edge to move. However, the rental increase I reported above took care of that last little nudge. I moved out today into a new facility.
John
I feel bad for you (regardless of reason) and everyone else who ends up moving. Iāve moved offsites before myself and know what a royal pain in the arse it is. This situation, and lack of close alternative storage facilities, makes it even worse.
I appreciate it Andy. For me in Chicago, the move was fairly easy. I moved to a facility I used to use thatās about two miles from Domaine. It actually took a lot less time than I anticipated today, and I got some much needed exercise in.
I feel for the folks in St. Louis, where there is no alternative facilities and the clock is ticking on them.
Alternative Wine Storage in St. Louis area
Here is one potential short term or long term wine storage alternative to Domaine St. Louis. I understand that McGuire moving and storage offers temperature controlled storage for wine. Moreover, according to their website, they are also set up to receive shipments, etc.
McGuire Moving and Storage
8645 South Broadway
St. Louis, Missouri 63111
Tel: 314.241.0600
info@mcguiremoving.com
One alternative I have not yet been able to check is whether any of the large wine distributors in the area, such as Major Brands and Pinnacle, may be able to lease storage space within their warehouses to collectors in need of storage space. As mentioned, cold storage companies such as Coldco Logistics or Atlas Cold Storage may also be alternatives for those with large cellars.
Don,
You mentioned that McGuire is able to receive shipments, etc., but I didnāt see anything about wine? Iām assuming I overlooked it.
Ian:
The information came from someone who builds wine cellars locally, who had a client who stored his wine there for several months during construction at his home. Iāve sent an email to McGuire to tell them that they may be getting phone calls and emails.
Maybe this is a stupid question, but if there is a Domaine Wine Storage in Chicago which is legal, why didnāt Lazar put his St. Louis operation across the river?
Not legal.
Ken:
East St. Louis probably wouldnāt have been considered a desirable location for wine storage.
Additionally, the only license that Domaine holds in Illinois is a public warehouse permit. Domaine does not hold a license to sell, import or ship wines within the State of Illinois. By virtue of Mr. Lazarās felony convictions, Domaine would not have been eligible for any type of liquor license in the State of Illinois. One of the looming issues in Illinois is that Domaine has been regularly making shipments of wine into the State of Illinois ā from each of the other Domaine Storage locations and other locations. For example, the recent lawsuit in Federal District Court against Cellar Advisors concerned a shipment of wines from California to Chicago, which was followed by a large shipment from Chicago to Florida.
The shipments into the State of Illinois are in clear violation of Section 6-29.1 of the Illinois Liquor Control Act, which has prohibited the importation of alcoholic beverages into the State by unlicensed persons for many years. Section 6-29.1 provides in pertinent part that:
- āAny person manufacturing, distributing, or selling alcoholic liquor who knowingly ships or transports or causes the shipping or transportation of any alcoholic liquor from a point outside this State to a person in this state who does not hold a manufacturerās, distributorās, importing distributorās, or nonresident dealerās license issued by the Liquor Control Commission, other than a shipment of sacramental wine to a bona fide religious organization, a shipment authorized by Section 6-29 [licensed winery direct shipments], or any other shipment authorized by this Act, is in violation of this Act.ā
A violation of this statute is presently a misdemeanor for the first offense subject to a $1,000 fine and each subsequent offense is a Class IV felony in Illinois. However, the Illinois Legislature recently toughened their prohibition against illegal importation of alcoholic beverages. Effective January 1, 2017, the amended penalty section (Section 10-1) provides that the unlicensed importation of 45 liters (60 750 ml bottles) or more is a felony on the first offense. Shipment of less than 60 bottles continues to be a misdemeanor on the first offense. Any subsequent offense, regardless of the amount of the shipment, is a felony.
ā¦or for anything else, indeed.
Over the years I went through seven or eight different storage places, which I ultimately rejected before I found the two I use now. Reasons ranged from too remote (Hartford Ct) to incompetence to losing 3 bottles of 1990 La Tache, and a fairly blasĆ© attitude when they tried to locate it (āOh we will find it soon.ā) Warehouses and wine are not just for dumping a pallet or two into a storage facility and hoping for the best, it is inventory, control, inspection when wine comes in, and most of all a trust between you and the facility, so that you are utterly confident that mistakes will be minimal and will be corrected immediately. And of course nothing will go missing. Interestingly I found that my wines stored nearby at River Valley, literally changed the way I treat and think about my wine, and it has become a very important relationship.
All this is a preamble to say that I hope the new facility will pass scrutiny in all these areas; because there is almost literally no other choice. I looked at the web site, and if I had my druthers, I would want a specialist wine storage facility. Whatever was said about Domaine, I always heard the service was impeccable, so I will keep my fingers crossed as the people move their wine out to new places.
I received a phone call this morning from Dan McGuire, the President of McGuire Moving and Storage. He says that they definitely are set up to store wine at their facility and do so but they havenāt advertised or promoted it up to now. So for those of you who are looking for an alternative storage location, I would suggest contacting McGuireās.
Don,
We have been very patient and held our tongues while watching you lie over and over, exaggerate, embellish, misquote, harass our customers, vendors and partners and omit or ignore facts which you posses and know to be helpful to Domaine. The last day however is a new low for you if that is even possible. you have now lied about the conversations you had with two people in St. Louis since last night. The first, a cellar builder, you have creatively edited out of your posts, but not before many of us got a screenshot of your endorsement (fully vetted no doubt) of his business and his cell phone number on the thread. The second is even more egregious and involves McGuire Moving and Storage.
- You did not and have not ever spoken to Dan McGuire THAT IS A LIE
- You were told explicitly that Josh McGuire is not Dan Mcguire, nor is he the president of McGuire moving YOU INTENTIONALLY MISREPRESENTED YOUR CONVERSATION
- You ignored Joshās request on 2 separate phone calls to be left out of this matter YOU ARE HARASSING THE VERY PEOPLE YOU CLAIM TO BE SENDING REFERRALS TO
- You ommitted from your post that Josh complimented our services and staff, acknowledged that we have partnered on projects and finds us to be a great resource in St. Louis.
- You ommitted from your post that Josh explicitly stated that they do NOT offer the same sort of services a domaine nor do they intend to.
Lets also address your continued hypocrisy of claiming to want to help wine collectors and protect the public. You offered one option for local storage across the river in illinois, which if I read your missives correctly, would subject your fellow collectors to violations of Illinois and possibly also Missouri law every time they go or from the illinois facility with wine in their vehicle.
Further, the two options for ācold storageā you offer hold a maximum temperature in their facilities of about 35 degrees. So technically not freezer, but damn close. I wonder if you have conducted any background checks on these companies? Do they have proper permits for alcohol? Zoning? What about their owners, employees or investors? Dunn and Bradstreet? Any bankruptcies? You wouldnāt endorse a service provider that you have not fully vetted would you?
(to be clear, I am not in any way suggesting that anyone Don mentions is not compliant or has any trust issuesā¦we operate in a competitive industry and welcome viable competition in any market)
![[popcorn.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/1/1ca9f29573458cca2424a66a50d6c1261081dd3e.gif "[popcorn.gif]"){kind=small}
Love that emoji. Have to give Marc credit. Aināt going down without a fight.
Yes, I guess two possible wrongs make a right? Or is it like that saying, Donāt case stones in a glass house?
Iāll give Marc credit, for someone who allegedly is operating (or was) at least two wine related operations without a license and in alleged violation of a number of state and possibly federal laws heās got balls posting here and saying Donās the bad guy. ![[wow.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/7/7d450e9830889c8943b674446a21b7254cad657e.gif "wow"){kind=small}