Maison Ilan

[David_Kaufman]

Just received an email welcoming me to the mailing list. Perhaps I’m misinterpreting from my fellow Berserkers, but the initial craze over this producer seems to have waned in the last year. Is this because of price increases? Quality issues?

If I go ahead and pull the trigger on my allocation, what are the best wines for the money?

[larry_schaffer]

[Rick_Smith]

There was a waiting list?

[Brent_C_l_a_y_t_o_n]

Why don’t you just do a search and spend the next few weeks reading the Maison Ilan threads? I think enough has been said already.

Disclosure: I was part of the initial offer and wanted to buy but I had to pass for financial reasons. I have not yet tasted a Maison Ilan wine.

[Ken_V]

@Brent C l a y t o n

Disclosure: I was part of the initial offer and wanted to buy but I had to pass for financial reasons. I have not yet tasted a Maison Ilan wine.

Are you suggesting that Ray’s wines are too expensive? How dare you!!!

[Brent_C_l_a_y_t_o_n]

No, I was sprung with a last minute work move at the offer time.

[Craig_G]

Here is my take. If you check CT, it appears that many fewer 2013s sold through than previous years. I think 2009 and 2010 sold well because of lots of enthusiasm and many personal postings and word of mouth from people who visited, as well as Ray’s continued presence on WB. 2011 sold well (competing primarily with 2009 and 2010 offerings from other Burgs) despite concerns about the vintage, as people were still coming onto the list and enthusiasm continued. 2012 reflected the price bump we are now seeing in other wines, and still sold relatively well based on all of the above plus the news of a good vintage.

Now comes 2013 with another big price increase, selling against 2012, remaining stocks of 2010, and a pretty large availability of other vintages at prices that may be high but look low compared to these 2013s. Vintage quality is unknown. Ray is gone from WB and there are a bunch of ugly threads. Who is going to buy these 2013s now at those prices?

I am still very positive on Ray and Maison Ilan but I couldn’t bring myself to pay for these. In the end the prices are likely in line with the reality for 2013, and Ray is just the canary. It’s unfortunate. On the good side, many people on the list will be offered wine and Ray can sell through his US and UK importers. If those lots compete with other 2013s they should probably fare better.

[David_Kaufman]

@Craig Gleason

Here is my take. If you check CT, it appears that many fewer 2013s sold through than previous years. I think 2009 and 2010 sold well because of lots of enthusiasm and many personal postings and word of mouth from people who visited, as well as Ray’s continued presence on WB. 2011 sold well (competing primarily with 2009 and 2010 offerings from other Burgs) despite concerns about the vintage, as people were still coming onto the list and enthusiasm continued. 2012 reflected the price bump we are now seeing in other wines, and still sold relatively well based on all of the above plus the news of a good vintage.

Now comes 2013 with another big price increase, selling against 2012, remaining stocks of 2010, and a pretty large availability of other vintages at prices that may be high but look low compared to these 2013s. Vintage quality is unknown. Ray is gone from WB and there are a bunch of ugly threads. Who is going to buy these 2013s now at those prices?

I am still very positive on Ray and Maison Ilan but I couldn’t bring myself to pay for these. In the end the prices are likely in line with the reality for 2013, and Ray is just the canary. It’s unfortunate. On the good side, many people on the list will be offered wine and Ray can sell through his US and UK importers. If those lots compete with other 2013s they should probably fare better.

Thanks, this is the info I was looking for!

[billnanson]

@Craig Gleason

Here is my take. If you check CT, it appears that many fewer 2013s sold through than previous years.

Maybe I’m missunderstanding, but I don’t understand what Cellar tracker would currently have to do with 2013s. Many (red) 2013s are still in malolactic and none are bottled. Or do people log their ‘forward/futures’ purchases?

[R.Oesterle]

have community prices in CT and community holdings(at the same date).
Example Chambertin 2012 ~240$(150 btl),2013 ~280$(80 btl).

[Scott_Brunson]

@billnanson

@Craig Gleason

Here is my take. If you check CT, it appears that many fewer 2013s sold through than previous years.

Maybe I’m missunderstanding, but I don’t understand what Cellar tracker would currently have to do with 2013s. Many (red) 2013s are still in malolactic and none are bottled. Or do people log their ‘forward/futures’ purchases?

People log them as, “wines pending arrival.”

I also passed on 2013 because of the price increase and lack of communication.

[Robert_Dentice]

@billnanson

@Craig Gleason

Here is my take. If you check CT, it appears that many fewer 2013s sold through than previous years.

Maybe I’m missunderstanding, but I don’t understand what Cellar tracker would currently have to do with 2013s. Many (red) 2013s are still in malolactic and none are bottled. Or do people log their ‘forward/futures’ purchases?

I assume what he means is you can see how many people have pre-order the 13s because some people add them to their cellar tracker holdings as pending.

[Loren_Sonkin]

I have only had a couple of mine and I have no issues with the quality. I bought in 09, 10, skipped 11 as I had not yet received them to try, and bought in 2012. I doubt I will buy more due to pricing. I buy little red burg anymore mostly for that reason plus I have a few hundred bottles in the cellar of them (my wife doesn’t like Pinot). Ray has a different model that he is still figuring out, and there are hiccups to be sure in the delivery process. Still, if the price doesn’t bother you, I think you should check them out. That assumes you are buying to drink (and not invest).

[Craig_G]

@billnanson

@Craig Gleason

Here is my take. If you check CT, it appears that many fewer 2013s sold through than previous years.

Maybe I’m missunderstanding, but I don’t understand what Cellar tracker would currently have to do with 2013s. Many (red) 2013s are still in malolactic and none are bottled. Or do people log their ‘forward/futures’ purchases?

Yes, you can see what’s pending. Since nobody has 2012 in their possession either and the deadline passed for 2013 orders for those who previously ordered, I think it’s safe to say that a lot of people passed on 2013.

[dcornutt]

$280 is a very good price for that quality re: Chambertin. He won’t have any trouble selling through.
I am glad he is getting some better distribution and shipping options. That has been frustrating.

[Mike_During]

I passed on it simply for the reason I have pretty much stopped buying anything. Also getting the wines to NZ is a challenge but Ray has been good by holding onto them.

[Bud_Carey]

I bought 2009 and 2010. The price increases have chased me away!!!

[Rick.T]

I’m not buying any 13s either and my decision wasn’t based on price. I need to taste what I have but I will probably wait a few years.