Lysozyme and sulfur

[Jim_Cowan]

@davetong

I’m curious as to what problems you’re trying to solve here.

The down side of sulphur is that the wines can be reductive, can’t be labelled as organic, and there are people who are sensitive (or - more commonly - think they are sensitive to it. But apart from that it works and as far as I’m aware is safe and cheap.

So is that a genuine issue, or is this simply another product in search of an application?

Dave,
Six of one, half-dozen of another, if you were asking me.
Alternatives are always nice and anything novel is worth inquiring about.
Best, Jim

[Wes_Barton]

@davetong

I’m curious as to what problems you’re trying to solve here.

The down side of sulphur is that the wines can be reductive, can’t be labelled as organic, and there are people who are sensitive (or - more commonly - think they are sensitive to it. But apart from that it works and as far as I’m aware is safe and cheap.

So is that a genuine issue, or is this simply another product in search of an application?

There are a lot of flaws related to sulfur, not all well understood. So quality control minimizes risk, it’s still there. Also, sulfur clearly has a significant effect on a wine’s aroma and taste. The problem that’s trying to be solved is making quality wine catering to those sensitive to sulfur, and the organic crowd. But, what has me excited from that little glimpse is that this could be another tool in a winemaker’s arsenal that may be able to dramatically improve certain wines.

[Eric_Lundblad]

@davetong

I’m curious as to what problems you’re trying to solve here.

The down side of sulphur is that the wines can be reductive, can’t be labelled as organic, and there are people who are sensitive (or - more commonly - think they are sensitive to it. But apart from that it works and as far as I’m aware is safe and cheap.

So is that a genuine issue, or is this simply another product in search of an application?

I think the best use of Lysozyme is with wines that have a ph of 3.8 or higher. It takes a lot of SO2 to have any effect at that ph range…and various lactic acid bacteria (LAB) can be quite SO2 tolerant. SO2 ends up being a poor solution for this situation. Lysozyme is the opposite of SO2 cuz it is most effective at 3.8 and higher. It has some effect below 3.8, and little/no effect under 3.6…so Lysozyme works really well on LAB at/above 3.8. You probably knew that already Dave, but I felt like typing this out anyways

That wasn’t my interest tho cuz I keep my ph’s lower than that. But I do keep my SO2 levels as low as I can (and still have a healthy wine) cuz (as others have pointed out), SO2 has an effect on how a wine ages. Anyways, mostly idle interest on my part about if Lysozyme fit in here (given my phs, it doesn’t).

[davetong]

Thanks for the typing Eric, I had no idea about that.

Personally I’m not sensitive to sulphites (as far as I know) and have yet to try an organic wine worth buying (interesting that when you’re spraying sulphur in the vineyard it’s organic, but when you’re adding it to wine it isn’t). But as I said, it’s been tried for years and thus we do have plenty of data to go off.

I have no idea of the chemical structure of these things, so I’m curious as to how much/what kind of research has been done to see how they break down in the long term.

[Eric_Lundblad]

Yeast consumes sulfur during fermentation…so so2 added in the vineyard, in normal cases, won’t make it past fermentation. I’m not certain, but I’m guessing that’s why so2 in the vineyard is considered organic.

[Kimberly_Cabot]

Protos is expensive, for the time being… though i’m sure like anyithng else, the more/greater production, the lower the price. Dieter quoted me a price that equates to around a dollar a bottle for Protos 1,2, and 3.

[Eric_Lundblad]

How much does a bottle of Protos treat?

[Ken_Zinns]

@Eric Lundblad

How much does a bottle of Protos treat?

Bryan Harrington got some sample bottles from Dieter with enough Protos 1, 2, & 3 for the specific test barrels he’s been doing. Don’t remember the dosages off the top of my head but IIRC it was roughly comparable to the amount of 10% SO2 solution you might add at the same stages.

[Kimberly_Cabot]

I meant around $300 per barrel. Not huge, but significant, none the less.

[Ken_Zinns]

@Kimberly Cabot

I meant around $300 per barrel. Not huge, but significant, none the less.

That’s quite a bit - a significant expense if you’re doing it for a lot of wine. Sure a lot more than SO2! Happy Thanksgiving to you, John, and your kids!