Lots of good, not so much great

[K_John_Joseph]

Are we just spoiled with all of our good wine and have lost touch with true mediocrity? Curious to hear other opinions.

Scott,

Limit yourself to a $20 budget and drink wine from the grocery store for the next month. Then let me know what you think about that $50 cali pinot. I think that we drink so much really good stuff that our paradigm shifts. If everything you drink is a 94, only the 98s are going to stop you in your tracks. We’re brutally spoiled by all of the wonderful fine wine we’ve been drinking. At least that’s my take.

[K_John_Joseph]

Nope - we self-sabotage more than the average consumer. We set even more unreasonable expectations.

For those of us who are not in the Top 1% of 1% of 1% financially, the unreasonable expectation was that the phenomenon of the world’s Central Banksters, acting in unison, to flood the world with Fake Money, would not eventually have had a deleterious effect on our purchasing power.

The bottom line is that:

1. Financially, those of us who are not in the Top 1% of 1% of 1% simply are not drinking as well* as we once did [prior to the explosion in Fake Money], and

2. The world’s winemakers have not been able to come up with new combinations of Terroir + Cultivar + Winemaking-Recipes that can break the Supply Side monopoly which sites such as the Cotes & the Baroli & the First Growths & the Mosel Auction Wines are wielding when it come to producing the tastiest juice.

*Unless one were to uncork the Cellar Treasures, which were purchased back when prices were still relatively sane.

Lol, I see the Creature from Jekyll Island is to blame for all of your life’s maladies. Come on maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan. The masses are drinking better juice by far than their counterparts in prior decades, let alone centuries. There is more mid-market quality than ever before. The ultra-high-end has more competition as the world has gotten wealthier post Bretton-Woods as resources were allocated to economic growth over military conflict. Grow up, wise up, and don’t turn every generic wine thread into a whiny dumpster fire that isn’t even accurate.

[Jim_Stewart]

This is my experience as well. Maybe my age (81). I find the same with a film or play, restaurant good but not great. So I have learned that great is something very special and rare, Even if I open a rare old Margaux or Yquem many are very good, but not great. If I have a great experience once a year that is a rare treat. BUT if I am living with very good food, wine, travel, friends, I am having a great life.

Age is not a guarantee of wisdom, but you seem to have achieved both. May we all someday!

[Nathan_Smyth]

the world has gotten wealthier post Bretton-Woods

The Elites [with access to Fake Money] have gotten vastly wealthier since Bretton-Woods.

But all of the available statistical data show:

1. At best a plateau of MEDIAN incomes [with many sectors showing an outright collapse in median incomes],

2. A Velocity of Money which has been at roughly ZERO for about 10 or 15 years now, and

3. Obscenely lopsided wealth density curves which this nation probably hasn’t witnessed in 125 years or more.
   
   
   

The masses are drinking better juice by far than their counterparts in prior decades

On balance, I would tend to agree with you on that point - there is no question but that wines are cleaner, fruitier, less likely to suffer from flaws [such as brett or TCA], and less likely to be heat-damaged.

Although my guess is that Carbohydrate content & Total Calories have been soaring in these new wines [ergo many of them are simply off-limits altogether if you’re trying for Keto or Paleo].

The ultra-high-end has more competition

More competition from the ultra-wealthy buyers, but no competition whatsover from lesser wines.

As above, we have made ZERO progress in breaking the monopoly strangleholds which the “ultra-high-end” have at the top of the market.

We just don’t yet have the correct combinations of Terroir + Cultivar + Winemaking Recipe to dethrone them.

Lol, I see the Creature from Jekyll Island is to blame for all of your life’s maladies. Come on maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan… Grow up, wise up, and don’t turn every generic wine thread into a whiny dumpster fire that isn’t even accurate.

Unless your financial situation is at least Top 1%, then you simply are NOT drinking as well in 2019 as you did in the past.

[Granted, many on this board are Top 1% of 1%, and I suspect we get some Top 1% of 1% of 1% (or their personal wine buyers) who are lurking here, looking for tips.]

But getting back to the subject of this thread - $50 Pinot Noir which was good but not great - the best Pinot Noir I have ever tasted was the 2003 Vatan, available locally, about 12 or 13 years ago, for $50 to $55.

I’ve never again seen a Vatan Pinot for sale in the USA [every six months or so, I’d check Wine-Searcher], and I haven’t seen anything like that listed at Weygandt-Metzler, so either the Vatan family ripped out the vines, or else the family keeps a small stash for themselves [or possibly for their friends who run Michelin-starred restaurants].

Right now, I’m looking at Wine-Searcher prices such as the following:

Clos La Neore: $250 to $275

Le Bourg: $450 to $750

And in such a marketplace, a wine of the quality of the 2003 Vatan Pinot Noir would have to premiere at $1250.

Furthermore, if the Vatan family could reliably reproduce the quality of the 2003 [vintage after vintage after vintage], then they’d quickly make a run at the $7500 to $12,500 price point.

I’m lucky that I’m one of the very few who got the opportunity to taste a pristine bottle of the 2003, but I’ll never again taste a Pinot Noir of that quality [unless I win the Powerball or the MegaMillions].

And I sure as hell ain’t gonna taste it at $50.

So, again, to emphasize: In 2019, we Normies simply do NOT have access to wines of the same caliber as what we were tasting as recently as 15 years ago.

[David_Bu3ker]

Nathan is always about the sky falling. It would be amusing if it wasn’t so ridiculous.

[Steve_Crawford]

the world has gotten wealthier post Bretton-Woods

Unless your financial situation is at least Top 1%, then you simply are NOT drinking as well in 2019 as you did in the past.


So, again, to emphasize: In 2019, we Normies simply do NOT have access to wines of the same caliber as what we were tasting as recently as 15 years ago.

both of these are patently false. perhaps there needs to be more context but on their face they are just laughably untrue.

[Markus_S]

…and the poor bottle of wine often does not stand a chance…

I wouldn’t call a fifty-buck wine a “poor bottle”!

[Markus_S]

I guess it’s time to take some chances and perhaps get some bad wine for perspective and contrast!

Or road trips to friends out-of-state!

[David_Bu3ker]

…and the poor bottle of wine often does not stand a chance…

I wouldn’t call a fifty-buck wine a “poor bottle”!

Only because you don’t understand the point.

[Markus_S]

…and the poor bottle of wine often does not stand a chance…

I wouldn’t call a fifty-buck wine a “poor bottle”!

Only because you don’t understand the point.

I understand the point, but took issue with the poor choice of words.

[JonathanG]

Are we just spoiled with all of our good wine and have lost touch with true mediocrity? Curious to hear other opinions.

Scott,

Limit yourself to a $20 budget and drink wine from the grocery store for the next month. Then let me know what you think about that $50 cali pinot. I think that we drink so much really good stuff that our paradigm shifts. If everything you drink is a 94, only the 98s are going to stop you in your tracks. We’re brutally spoiled by all of the wonderful fine wine we’ve been drinking. At least that’s my take.

This.

I’m going through all my prior “favorite” wines now so they don’t go to waste, as I have walked up the value chain a bit in terms of what I’m buying, and some of those prior favorites make me wonder what I really liked about them. Some that I previously thought were fantastic I would not be a little embarassed to bring them to someone’s house!

[markjchambers]

I think a few responses have touched on how I experience an exceptional wine. It’s really a contextual experience depending on where you are, who you are with, your frame of mind, etc. Many times I’ve had a great bottle of wine that was part of a really nice evening. I was with good friends at an Italian restaurant in Ann Arbor and found a bottle of Sardinian wine for $28 on their list. Everything though it was great. We felt we had discovered something special. It went with the food and contributed to an enjoyable dinner. I found the same wine at retail and opened a bottle a few days later and it was no where near as good as I remembered. Same wine, different context.

[Anton_D]

King Missile’s “Gary and Melissa” describes this phenomenon exactly.

It’s far too racy a song to post a link to.

[David_Baum]

the world has gotten wealthier post Bretton-Woods

The Elites [with access to Fake Money] have gotten vastly wealthier since Bretton-Woods.

But all of the available statistical data show:

1. At best a plateau of MEDIAN incomes [with many sectors showing an outright collapse in median incomes],

2. A Velocity of Money which has been at roughly ZERO for about 10 or 15 years now, and

3. Obscenely lopsided wealth density curves which this nation probably hasn’t witnessed in 125 years or more.
   
   
   

The masses are drinking better juice by far than their counterparts in prior decades

On balance, I would tend to agree with you on that point - there is no question but that wines are cleaner, fruitier, less likely to suffer from flaws [such as brett or TCA], and less likely to be heat-damaged.

Although my guess is that Carbohydrate content & Total Calories have been soaring in these new wines [ergo many of them are simply off-limits altogether if you’re trying for Keto or Paleo].

The ultra-high-end has more competition

More competition from the ultra-wealthy buyers, but no competition whatsover from lesser wines.

As above, we have made ZERO progress in breaking the monopoly strangleholds which the “ultra-high-end” have at the top of the market.

We just don’t yet have the correct combinations of Terroir + Cultivar + Winemaking Recipe to dethrone them.

Lol, I see the Creature from Jekyll Island is to blame for all of your life’s maladies. Come on maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan… Grow up, wise up, and don’t turn every generic wine thread into a whiny dumpster fire that isn’t even accurate.

Unless your financial situation is at least Top 1%, then you simply are NOT drinking as well in 2019 as you did in the past.

[Granted, many on this board are Top 1% of 1%, and I suspect we get some Top 1% of 1% of 1% (or their personal wine buyers) who are lurking here, looking for tips.]

But getting back to the subject of this thread - $50 Pinot Noir which was good but not great - the best Pinot Noir I have ever tasted was the 2003 Vatan, available locally, about 12 or 13 years ago, for $50 to $55.

I’ve never again seen a Vatan Pinot for sale in the USA [every six months or so, I’d check Wine-Searcher], and I haven’t seen anything like that listed at Weygandt-Metzler, so either the Vatan family ripped out the vines, or else the family keeps a small stash for themselves [or possibly for their friends who run Michelin-starred restaurants].

Right now, I’m looking at Wine-Searcher prices such as the following:

Clos La Neore: $250 to $275

Le Bourg: $450 to $750

And in such a marketplace, a wine of the quality of the 2003 Vatan Pinot Noir would have to premiere at $1250.

Furthermore, if the Vatan family could reliably reproduce the quality of the 2003 [vintage after vintage after vintage], then they’d quickly make a run at the $7500 to $12,500 price point.

I’m lucky that I’m one of the very few who got the opportunity to taste a pristine bottle of the 2003, but I’ll never again taste a Pinot Noir of that quality [unless I win the Powerball or the MegaMillions].

And I sure as hell ain’t gonna taste it at $50.

So, again, to emphasize: In 2019, we Normies simply do NOT have access to wines of the same caliber as what we were tasting as recently as 15 years ago.

I liked it better when you were taking about your gut feelings on things you said you know nothing about pertaining to wines you’ll never buy at ages you’ll never hold then onto and that you’ll never drink. That was far more impressive

[Doug_Lee]

Scott,

Apologies if this has already been mentioned: Pinot Noir from Burgundy ages for decades of course, but I have also been impressed with the aging potential of PN from California and Oregon. Consuming a wine at age 5 gives a decent snap shot but certainly doesn’t allow the full potential of the wine to be assessed. That same bottle consumed 10 years from now might well show much better.

Cheers,
Doug