Looking to Add French and Italian Wine to my Cellar (beginner!)

WINE TALK
41

+1. Taste, taste, taste more. Then buy why you like.

42

p.s. when talking about taste before buying, this isn’t as prescriptive as ‘only buy from a producer, label and vintage you’ve tasted’. Rather if you’ve enjoyed a wine from that region or in that style, have more confidence to buy from there if you believe the wine is in a similar style. E.g. if you’ve enjoyed wines from a modernist leaning producer such as Mauro Molino, then (using Pat Burton’s wonderful thread) feel more confident in buying wines bracketed in that style, but also venture out to try wines in the middle ground and to full modernists.

That’s not to say don’t buy the specific producer/wine/vintage you tasted - if you loved the wine and think the price is very fair, then take the plunge and buy a few, if the opportunity is there. I don’t do this as often as I should.

43

Hi Nick -

I think it’s pretty easy for the group of us to give you some serious, world-class recommendations of new release, French and Italian wines, in your very generous price range. The tricky part is, we don’t know you or your palate/preferences, and many of these wines we recommend may not be ready for another 10-20+ years.

Take Bordeaux, for example: The best from very good vintages - and recent vintages of 2014-16 are getting lots of praise, each for different reasons - will age effortlessly but the best will not show best for 20 years. You try a 2014 now, and it may only be a glimpse of what it will reveal in the future, notwithstanding how critics may gush over how it tasted in barrel. I’ll make some recommendations, but wow, I’d really love to see you take that generous $120 and go buy some mature Bordeaux to see how much you love them. Do you love them enough to plonk down a lot of money and then watch them mature for a long number of years?

I’ll stick with a few classics that always, IMHO, seem to deliver:

Leoville Barton
Montrose
Pichon Baron
Conseillante
Sociando Mallet (the old school classic value)
Grand Puy Lacoste
Haut Bailly

I bought lots of all of these in 2014 except for the Conseillante (my need to remedy that latter issue). Even the 2000 vintage on these wines can benefit from more time, to put into perspective.

There are a lot of other excellent Bordeaux that you can read about on the traditional versus modern thread. And many are in the $50 range. The 2014 vintage had many Classified Growth Bordeaux priced in the $50 range.

Back to my premise, go track down some Sociando Mallet from 1990, 1995, 2003, to see what you think. Drinking beautifully and under your price point. I just did a quick Google and found 2000 Ch. Grand Puy Lacoste for $100.

44

This is great advice. Some of the great vintages with some age on them are 1982, 1985, 1986, 1989, 1990, 2000 and 2005. But, there are also a lot of very good vintages where the wines are more reasonably priced that will show you more. I am thinking of 1996, 2001 and 2004 in particular where wines are still available and the prices for excellent wines are still affordable. A year or two ago I was still buying 2001 Ducru Beaucailloux for under your $120.

45

Nick,

A lot of good advice in this thread. Something I might also recommend is rather than starting with say, Barolo as your intro to Piedmont. Pick up Langhe Nebbiolo from good producers like Vietti, Produttori and Cantina del Pino. Check out some Rosso di Montalcino & Chianti rather than Brunello. Coudolet de Beaucastel rather than sinking into a bunch of Chateauneuf. St Joseph & Crozes Hermitage as entry points to the Northern Rhone.

I only offer this as you will get to taste a lot more wine for a lot less $ & then make decisions on what you might really like & want to move into some higher end purchasing.

Another rec is to call Kermit Lynch’s Berkeley Store & ask them to build you a sampler of the regions you want to taste. Tell them exactly what you stated to begin this thread. They will make you an excellent case of wine.

Happy tasting!

46

For Piemonte, I’d +1 the recommendation for Produttori’s normale barbaresco, all recent vintages have been quite solid and classically styled. Other reasonably priced entries to Barbaresco are Prunotto, Sottimano, and Castello di Verduno. For Barolo you might start with Vietti, Giacomo Fenocchio, or even Pio Cesare and Vajra. These are not the heavy hitters in the region, but I find for their price and accessibility they tend to be good intros.


For Brunello there still tends to be quiet a range of styles and I am not sure what you would prefer. The trend towards increased extraction and oak has ebbed thanks to some scandals and a shift in the market and there are more and more traditionally made Brunelli that are elegant, medium bodied, and dare I say Burgundian. Unless you become truly enamored with a producer, I would avoid the Riservas for a while.
The less expensive (~50$) and more readily available Brunelli tend to be more approachable to a new world palate, (for a WA/OR drinker it may be a bit different), but that is a generalization. I would stick with 2011s or 2009s as they are more open today. When you find producers that you like the, 2010s and the 2012s are good for the cellar. Ignore James Sucklings scores for Brunello. There are many options for <100$ that are fabulous: Altesino, Barbi, Marroneto, Valdicava
 For more inexpensive everyday intros the Rossos di Montalcino can be a good start, though for Sangiovese in that price range I tend to prefer Chianti.

And because I cannot resist, don’t be afraid to try some Aglianico from the south! The good examples are exceptional and can age for decades (Elena Fucci, Feudi di San Gregorio, Mastroberardino), they are funky, volcanic, and incredibly expressive.

47

This is an area I know virtually nothing about, but the few Taurasis I have had have been really good.

48

Before I did anything else in the wine world, I’d go down to Total Wine [Interbay?], and grab a bottle of the Zardetto Prosecco [dry sparkling white] and the Paolo Saracco Moscato d’Asti [sweet sparkling wine], and try them:

http://www.totalwine.com/search/all?text=ZARDETTO

http://www.totalwine.com/search/all?text=SARACCO

There are very few things in this hobby which are noticeably better than Zardetto & Saracco, and you can get both of those wines together for about $30 total [including tax].

Then if you could find a nice red Barbera or Dolcetto to go with your Zardetto & Saracco, you’d have yourself a world-class meal [dry white, red, sweet white].

For instance, it looks like Total Wine Interbay might carry La Spinetta Barbera Ca di Pian, for about $25:

http://www.totalwine.com/search/all?text=SPINETTA+BARBERA

So those three wines - Zardetto, Spinetta, and Saracco - could probably be had altogether for about $60 [including tax].

One store in Seattle which has [or has had] outstanding Barbera & Dolcetto, at more upscale price points than Total Wine, is Esquin:

If Esquin has any Giacomo Conterno Barbera in stock, then grab it.

For old-school Italian wine, with far more esoteric flavor profiles than the above, go to Pike & Western, and get Paolo Bea:

[WHITE] 2010 Paolo Bea “Arboreus”, $50.00

​[RED] 2010 Paolo Bea Sangrantino of Montefalco "Pagliaro - Umbria, Italy, $90.00

[RED] ​2010 Paolo Bea Montefalco Rosso Riserva “Pipparello”, $70.00

[RED] 2010 Paolo Bea Montefalco Rosso “Rosso de Veo” - Umbria, Italy, $60

Finally, the best French selection that I saw was at Grand Vin, in Olympia.

If they actually have this stuff in stock, then their 2014 Chablis lineup is simply outstanding:

https://grandvinwinemerchants.com/burgundy/white/?limit=100&sort=pricedesc&category=55&Appellation=Chablis

Here are the three 2014s that I’d be the most interested in trying:

2014 Long-Depaquit Chablis la Moutonne Grand Cru Monopole, $89.99

2014 William Fevre Chablis Bougros Cote Bouguerots, $72.99

2014 Jean Paul & Benoit Droin Chablis les Clos, $64.99

I’d be a little hesitant to serve the Fevre with the Long-Depaquit & the Droin, simply because Fevre’s style might overwhelm them, although if they were all served in the same tasting, then I’d definitely pour the Fevre last.

And here are a few older Red Burgundies, at Grand Vin, which caught my eye [get the older vintages of the reds, because you don’t want to waste a ton of money on more recent vintages and then rush to open them years before they’re ready]:

2009 Pousse D’Or Clos De La Bousse D’Or, $99.99

2004 Lucie & Auguste Lignier GC Aux Combottes, $89.99

[no cellar tracker]

2004 Lucie & Auguste Lignier MSD Romain Lignier, $79.99

2005 Faiveley NSG Aux Chaignots, $68.99

49

Then, when you ready for the best wine values in the world, try

JJ Prum
Zilliken
Selbach
Schaeffer
von Schubert
Donnhoff

Yes, German wines.

1 Like
50

Thank you for the amazing recommendations
I have been researching them all day when I should have been working! I think I found some Ch. Grand Puy Lacoste at Totalwine, not 100% sure it was the one you mentioned since it was a spur of the moment stop and I still no nothing about the regions!

51

Thank you everyone for the recommendations!

This evening I stopped at a Total wine since I was driving by and picked up a few things (probably more than I should have!). Not sure if any are “cellar worthy” but excited to try a few here and there!

Sadly, my phone died early in the day so I did not have any of this information when I was shopping so hopefully I did alright and have some good examples of a few different regions.

Here is what I got:

Chateau Grand Puy Lacoste Pauillac 2014
Chateau Grand Puy Lacoste Pauillac 2013
Chateau Grand Puy Lacoste Pauillac 2012
Chateau Grand Puy Lacoste Pauillac 2011
Chateau Brane Cantenac Margaux 2014
Chateau Brane Cantenac Margaux 2013
Chateau Brane Cantenac Margaux 2012
Chateau Kirwan Margaux 2014
Colombier Vacqueyras Vieilles Vignes 2015
Delas St Joseph Francois de Tournon 2013
Delas St Joseph St Epine 2013
Delas Cote Rotie Seigneur de Maugrion 2013
Delas Crozes Hermitage le Clos 2013
Delas Crozes Hermitage Gr Chemins 2013
Delas Cornas Chante Perdrix 2014
Halos de Jupiter Chateauneuf du Pape 2014
Domaine Grand Veneur Chateauneuf-du-Pape Les Origines 2013
Domaine du Pegau Chat du Pape Cuvee Reserve 2013

Not sure where to start!

52

WOW!! Thank you for the research
I wish I had it with me when I was shopping this evening, but I am looking forward to diving in and reading about the wines you suggested!

53

Dude, I was trying to save you some money.

I had no idea you were a Balla’.

54

2 points re this list–read about 2004 red Burgs before you buy–there’s a reason they are less expensive. Secondly, Droin has a very high rate of premature oxidation.

55

Hey Nick,

Total Wine is reasonable for Bordeaux, but pretty rough for other regions.

Not sure what you’re hoping to learn from those bottles of Delas, for example. You’ll probably understand more about Delas’ still than you will about St Joseph vs Crozes Hermitage.

On the other hand, Delas tends to be on the slicker, modern side, so might provide a reasonable bridge to better producers.

Let us know what you think!

56

Nick
All the Bordeaux should cellar well, indeed will need cellar time to show strongly, but do read up on recent tasting notes in Cellartracker to get thoughts. Nice to find one that sounds relatively approachable and open it, to get a feel for what the wines are like young. Oh and have a roast leg of lamb on the dining table when you drink it.

regards
Ian

57

Not sure about the Delas either, I didn’t really know what I was buying, but the lady “helping” me suggested them because of the different regions. Hopefully they will give me some sense of the regions.

58

Yeah I was afraid they will all be very young, but I wanted to open at least a few and see if I like them then I can cellar the rest! And that roast sounds delicious!

59

I think I would’ve tried to put together some somewhat more characteristic bottles from each region but I’m interested to see what you think of the delas.

60

Yes, I definitely should have done that, and I will at some point!