I actually dropped a wine club years ago because they insisted on shipping 4 times a year. I’m in Northern CA, and I don’t want anyone shipping me wine from about May through September. Doesn’t work. I’m sure the same could be said for most areas of the country. Freezing conditions are obviously a consideration in many areas as well.
Twice a year is fine for me.
I don’t like the idea of “tiers” if it’s a hierarchical thing, the elites vs. the proletarian drinkers. Let people pick how many bottles they want, and leave it at that. However, I much prefer the mailing list model, which is why I haven’t belonged to a club in a long time, and have no intention of ever joining one.
This being said, I do understand the appeal of the “club” model both for consumers and producers, and wouldn’t begrudge a winery for using that model. I just wouldn’t buy direct from that winery.
Getting a discount and access together is the appeal of most of the mailing lists I’m on, and I think this combo engenders a lot of customer loyalty.
I don’t really care if I’m getting a “special” release vs. one that non-members can also acquire. Make the wine good, and I’ll buy it.
Forget clubs. Get on lists where you choose what and how many to buy.
I might have used the wording wine club in a way I didn’t intend. I meant wince club as part of the winery and a membership to get wine allocations that you sign up for, not as part of some external club that carries multiple wines from multiple producers. Maybe someone can clarify exactly what the difference is in definition between a membership, mailing list or wine club from winery X? To me they seem interchangeable, but I might be missing a nuance.
If you want to pick and choose your wines for each shipment, how does winery protect themselves from members just picking the most desirable stuff and leaving behind the least attractive? There must be some sort of forcing of the hand here for certain cuvee’s, no?
As others have suggested - I would start a mailing list first as you will probably get list members that move to clubs after they know your wines. Also if you don’t have a tasting room it can be very difficult to build your club membership - much easier to get mailing list sign-ups at pouring events, wine dinners, etc. Clubs take a lot of time - especially when you are just starting out.
We offer three different club levels that ship twice a year - they each have different discounts and different flat shipping rates. Our clubs receive the newest vintages first (about 6 months before our general release). We suggest the wines but our clubs can fully customize their orders.
There is an ocean of difference between the two.
WINE CLUB: We send you wine on a regular basis (quarterly, semiannually, whatever). We may pick the wine, allow you to pick, or some combination. There may be one type of shipment only, or variations (whites only, reds only, etc.) It’s basically a subscription model. A recurring charge, like your gym membership or cable TV.
MAILING LIST: We tell you when we have wine to offer. You buy what you want (from what’s allocated/available). You don’t have to buy anything if you don’t want to. (You might get cut from the list if you don’t buy for a while). No obligation.
I think that you hit the nail on the head as to why many people don’t like clubs; noboody wants to be forced to buy less desirable wine.
I think you protect yourself with pricing. Better bottles should cost more and less desirable wines/those made in larger quantity should cost less.
+1
Uh…how does a winery prevent people from buying undesirable wine?
Maybe…don’t make undesirable wine?
You mean like having to buy the motor oil like Rousanne to get the Syrah that you really like? Those days are hopefully long gone.
Yep - no clubs for me. All my wine is bought from lists and my purchases vary a lot from release to release based on what we’ve been drinking and need to replace, finances and appeal of the offer. Even for winemakers I really like, I never join a club and won’t. And while I like the sense the my purchases from small makers pay for the business (one reason I like Berserker Day is that it feels like participating in the sustenance of small vineyards), I have no interest in buying your “less attractive” wines.
Twice a year is good … three times tops.
Early access - nope. Discount - not essential if pricing is fair but discounts on shipping get my attention (even if that is irrational ;->
Rather than tiers and clubs, tell me a story of why your new project is worth trying, why I would want to get on your list and try your new offering when I already have so many good choices. If you do that well and then deliver a really good wine that offers something fresh in the market … that’s what I look for.
well stated.
i would add:
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most traditional “wine clubs” offer a discount on purchases.
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most traditional “mailing list” do not.
Keep it simple in the beginning. Sell wine to those who sign up on your MAILING LIST.
Make everything available for the inaugural release with no minimum order per bottling. Let people choose what and how many they wish up to the limit.
No more than 2 releases a year. Many smaller wineries only do 1 release a year.
Pending on retail cost per bottle, include FREE SHIPPING on 6 bottles or a case.
Reward your best customers with more wine available to buy come release.
Invest on marketing your product including relentless social media. The more people in the know, the more bottles you’ll sell. ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
This is exactly my belief as well. I won’t buy from any winery that forces me to buy wines I don’t want in order to get those that I do.
If you looking to prime the pump, offer some starter packs that allow folks to sample the wines. From there offer a list that gives members access and a discount with ability to add to their regular shipment.
Like many others above, I don’t join clubs, except rarely, and then only if I can completely customize the club order each time.
I think clubs tend to capture the casual wine person, someone making an impulse commitment while visiting, and/or someone who isn’t sensitive to price and selection but just wants the convenience of a bundle of wines arriving periodically. From the winery’s standpoint, when you can get someone like that on the hook, it’s a great thing.
As far as us discerning wine geek types, I think you’re only going to get those if demand is strong enough and thus the clout/leverage of the winery is very high. If SQN wants you to have to join their wine club to receive their wines, they could do it, and plenty of people would fall in line. But I think that is pretty rare, among the serious wine enthusiasts.
I agree with no clubs (the only club I’ve ever been a member of was Chateau Ste. Michelle, when I lived nearby and wanted in on the concert presales). But I think this board is a very specific audience. You have to figure out who your core market is. If it’s people like us here, then clubs are clearly not very popular. But I know LOTS of more “casual” wine drinkers who join clubs and are quite excited to tell me about the clubs they’re members of. If you want to target them, a club might be important.
A Berserkerday offer could give you some real (free) exposure.
Seiber jinx
If you want to pick and choose your wines for each shipment, how does winery protect themselves from members just picking the most desirable stuff and leaving behind the least attractive? There must be some sort of forcing of the hand here for certain cuvee’s, no?
Adam - this is a pretty astonishing question from someone who’s seriously considering a business. There is a lot of economic theory and there are even a few Supreme Court cases regarding tie-ins. A tie-in is when a customer is forced to buy product B if he wants product A.
The court cases wouldn’t really apply to your scenario, but you might want to look at some of the theoretical work cited if you’re interested in background.
The point is that the practice is usually resented by the people who are forced to buy the tied goods.
So you need to be realistic. It is entirely likely that you may end up with wine that you just can’t sell for some reason, especially if you’re not backed by significant money, grape sources, and wine making know-how. A guy like Paul Hobbs can start up a winery and acquire everything he needs. He also has a reputation. Together, he’s got a pretty good shot at selling his wines, although no guarantees. But one of the most important rights in a capitalist system is that a business has the right to fail. If you really end up with less desirable wine, do as suggested and discount it significantly or sell it off in bulk to someone and stop making it. Small winery operations fail all the time because people miscalculated the knowledge, effort, or money needed, or the demand for their product, or their ability to create demand and sell their product.