Let Wine Rest after Shipping?

[CFu]

@Mark Mason

I have a wicker basket that I use to bring wine up from the cellar undisturbed. I thought everyone does?

what if you swing the basket!?

[Mattstolz]

@David Glasser

@Jonathan Loesberg

I find it astonishing that people think they know better what I experienced than I do. It is the unfortunate consequence of being too sure of one’s principles. I do not know if what happened was travel shock. I am aware of how ungeneralizable one anecdote is. But I did experience what I experienced. Sediment did not cause the distinction.

Have you considered the possibility that your perceptions may be subject to random variability and confirmation bias? I think this travel shock effect is very difficult to prove based on individual experience without a control.

even a control is really tough with wine. theres obviously no proof one way or the other and no way to go back and tell, but its probably as likely that what was experienced from this car ride was just bottle variation as travel shock. the world will never know.

[Scott_Wi3gand]

@John Morris

@Anton D

If people were really all that into travel shock phobia, they’d be dropping their BYO wines at the restaurant a week in advance so as not to bruise their delicate grape juice with the harrowing ride from cellar to the establishment’s dining table.

You don’t do that?

I do the opposite in pursuit of science. Since I want to ensure homogeneity of experiences, I make sure to take all of my wines out for a long drive right before I drink them. You’ve got to eliminate those variables if you want to keep it scientific!

[Chris_Seiber]

@John Morris

@Mattstolz

Do you let your wines rest for a little while after receiving them before opening? Does it make a difference for a young wine or only in wines where sediment is a concern?

Here’s a thread on travel shock citing nine earlier threads on the topic. I think everything that could be said on either side, and then some, has been said.

Bottom line, many people (including many in the trade) are convinced it’s for real, and many others are sure it’s a myth.

Well done, John!

The one thing I’d say in response to where the thread is going (“I don’t know if it’s real, but why not wait a few weeks just to be safe”), is that’s fine with your new shipments of young wines, which usually need the bottle age anyway.

But the real shame is if people don’t take their good wines with them for travel and vacations because of fear of travel shock. I take wine everywhere I go, and it’s always fine, including the day my flight arrived. I hope people don’t get deterred from that because of this travel shock notion. Beyond that, I think the debate is mostly academic.

[Scott_Wi3gand]

@Anton D

@ky1em!ttskus

Pascal’s Wine Wager?

That was awesome, just so you know.

+1
Very well done Kyle.

[Doug_Hein]

@c fu

@Mark Mason

I have a wicker basket that I use to bring wine up from the cellar undisturbed. I thought everyone does?

what if you swing the basket!?

If you swing it hard and fast enough, in a large circle, it acts as a centrifuge, separating wine from sediment for all your guests to enjoy!

[Drew_Goin]

Some folks appear to think “road sickness” is a myth.

I believe that it is very real…at least when a bottle travels a thousand miles to my apartment!

I try to give any recent arrival a week to ten days before I pop it.

[David_Glasser]

I think it was our dear departed Ron Kramer who once strapped a few bottles into a paint agitator to do a side by side comparison. He didn’t find a difference.

[Markus_S]

@Jonathan Loesberg

@Nate Simon

This is the old “travel shock” thing revisited, and you will get a ton of answers, likely all over the map.
Aside from stirring up sediment, there’s no real reason the wine should be adversely affected. I remember years ago reading an interview with one of the legendary UC Davis professors (can’t recall which one) who flatly said that the very idea is ridiculous, and has no scientific merit.

And yet I have experienced it, with old and delicate wine. Indeed I experienced it before I knew what it was, tasting the same wine right after I had driven with it in the car for four hours, and then again a couple of weeks later. This is anecdotal evidence, I know, but it’s my anecdotal experience and hard to get over.

Some people will also state there is no ‘evidence’ for God…

[Jonathan_Loesberg]

On confirmation bias, as I said in my original remark, when I experienced this, I had no notion that travel shock existed. I first heard the term when I told the person who had sold me the wine about the experience. I still do not know that I believe that travel per se causes the phenomenon. As I keep saying, I was reporting an experience.

I’m not sure what to make of Markus’ remark. First, since I keep saying this is anecdotal evidence–which isn’t evidence at all–I am making no evidential claim. I am just describing an experience.

Second, I’m among the people that think there is no evidence for god. I fail to see the analogy. But that discussion probably doesn’t belong on a wine board.

[Chris_Seiber]

Travel shock would be the easiest thing to demonstrate in blind tastings, yet as far as I know, nobody has ever successfully done it, and the only blind tastings I’ve seen have reached the opposite conclusion.

I’d bet good money against anyone who wants to see if they can find travel shocked wines in a blind tasting. Would any proponent of the theory bet on himself or herself doing so?

Buy three of a wine from a retailer or winery across the country, then buy three more of the same wine from the same retailer or winery, and try all six blind the day after the last three arrive under identical conditions. Let’s see who could pick out the the new arrivals as being worse than the first three.

[Brian_Tuite]

Were’s Mike Pobega when we need him?

[Brian_Tuite]

@Chris Seiber

Travel shock would be the easiest thing to demonstrate in blind tastings, yet as far as I know, nobody has ever successfully done it, and the only blind tastings I’ve seen have reached the opposite conclusion.

I’d bet good money against anyone who wants to see if they can find travel shocked wines in a blind tasting. Would any proponent of the theory bet on himself or herself doing so?

Buy three of a wine from a retailer or winery across the country, then buy three more of the same wine from the same retailer or winery, and try all six blind the day after the last three arrive under identical conditions. Let’s see who could pick out the the new arrivals as being worse than the first three.

All those wines we had at the Falltaculr pre-Dinner sure failed the shock didn’t they? Just horrid, all of them.

[Marcu_Stanley]

I store off site. So if I believed in travel shock I’d also have to let wine rest a month after bringing it home in my car from my off site storage. No thanks.

I mean, I’m going to a wine dinner across town tonight. I guess I should ask the host if I can drop off the wine and then return in a couple of weeks to drink it with him after it’s settled down.

[Jayson_Cohen]

@Doug Hein

@ky1em!ttskus

How long would it take for sediment so fine, it’s invisible to the to naked eye, to settle from a shaken state to a completely settled state?

We will never know, since the resultant settled sediment is invisible …

@Anton D

If people were really all that into travel shock phobia, they’d be dropping their BYO wines at the restaurant a week in advance so as not to bruise their delicate grape juice with the harrowing ride from cellar to the establishment’s dining table.

Funny story from a week ago. My two friends and I planned an overnight to Chicago (a few hours’ drive), primarily to dine at El Ideas, a Michelin Star BYOB restaurant. I volunteered to supply a significant portion of the evening’s wine, since my cellar is well-stocked. My friend picked me up in the morning, and we were happily midway there when my wife called to inform me I had forgotten my wine! Well, that sure sucked!

In Chicago, we made an emergency trip to the South Loop Binny’s and picked out some really nice wines, including a 2000 Ch. Troplong Mondot that had a fair amount of fine sediment (I pulled out my little flashlight and checked). The wine lady was helping us and was SO excited that we buying such nice wines for our dinner. I carefully carried the Troplong around the store making known my desire to keep the sediment undisturbed, which she acknowledged was a great idea.

When we got to the checkout, I was careful to handle the Troplong for the cashier so she wouldn’t turn it around and upside down every which way like they usually do, and the wine lady says, “I’ll get you a wooden case to carry it all in.” Fantastic! She goes off, grabs a crate, brings it back and stuffs it full of colored tissue paper. I consider keeping control of the Troplong, but I figure she’s aware that I’ve taken such care not to disturb the sediment that she certainly will lay it gently upright in the box.

WRONG. She grabs the bottle, pops the little protector thingy on it and plops it down firmly 180 degrees from how it had been resting in the rack. WTF?!? Oh well, c’est la vie. (I should have gone back and exchanged bottles, but didn’t think of it then.)

Anyway, it was still fantastic at dinner. A little murky, but really tasty!

I wish I found this surprising.

I have a similar story related to the now defunct restaurant Cru in NYC. Cru had one of the best collections of older wines, particularly Barolo. The wine director and sommeliers were very proud of their stock of Barolos 30-50 years old, for good reason, and pricing was pretty fair. I assumed perhaps naively that their younger somms were properly trained in handling these old bottles, especially given the absolute necessity to allow old Barolo to remain undisturbed before decanting off the sediment.

The first time there, we ordered IIRC a 1966 or 1967 Marcarini Brunate, which I asked to be decanted. The sommelier disappears to the cellar and returns a few minutes later casually holding the bottle horizontally, flips it vertically onto his workstation to open the bottle, and proceeds to decant the wine. Watching from 20 feet away, I inwardly cringe, but like you I remained silent. The wine was grumpy and murky and never recovered over the course of the meal, but the bottle otherwise looked to be in perfect condition. I should have said something but didn’t.

I went back to Cru a number of times after that, but anytime I ordered old Barolo, I gave very explicit instructions about how to handle the bottle. No more chances.

[mike_pobega]

@Brian Tuite

Were’s Mike Pobega when we need him?

lol. you know where I stand.

[Robert.Fleming]

I let them rest until I get thirsty.

[DougS]

@Chris Seiber

Travel shock would be the easiest thing to demonstrate in blind tastings, yet as far as I know, nobody has ever successfully done it, and the only blind tastings I’ve seen have reached the opposite conclusion.

I’d bet good money against anyone who wants to see if they can find travel shocked wines in a blind tasting. Would any proponent of the theory bet on himself or herself doing so?

Buy three of a wine from a retailer or winery across the country, then buy three more of the same wine from the same retailer or winery, and try all six blind the day after the last three arrive under identical conditions. Let’s see who could pick out the the new arrivals as being worse than the first three.

I remember someone doing this with a group a while back, and they slightly preferred the bottles that had been shipped over those that hadn’t.

I’ve come to think the whole travel shock idea started as an excuse made by wholesalers when their wines don’t show well.

Finding something that fits the theory with aged wines tells us absolutely nothing. Aged wines are quite variable.

[ky1em1ttskus]

@Doug Schulman

@Chris Seiber

Travel shock would be the easiest thing to demonstrate in blind tastings, yet as far as I know, nobody has ever successfully done it, and the only blind tastings I’ve seen have reached the opposite conclusion.

I’d bet good money against anyone who wants to see if they can find travel shocked wines in a blind tasting. Would any proponent of the theory bet on himself or herself doing so?

Buy three of a wine from a retailer or winery across the country, then buy three more of the same wine from the same retailer or winery, and try all six blind the day after the last three arrive under identical conditions. Let’s see who could pick out the the new arrivals as being worse than the first three.

I remember someone doing this with a group a while back, and they slightly preferred the bottles that had been shipped over those that hadn’t.

I’ve come to think the whole travel shock idea started as an excuse made by wholesalers when their wines don’t show well.

Finding something that fits the theory with aged wines tells us absolutely nothing. Aged wines are quite variable.

I like this idea and/or telling customers about travel shock allows the wines to bottle age longer after being released too early and/or it hurts a purchaser’s ability to return a faulty wine since months (or longer) have passed.

[larry_schaffer]

@Paul Miller

I’m not sure about travel shock, but more inclined to be safe with older wines (sediment).
I might believe in bottle shock, but now we’re talking about new, young wines.

I’ve also gotten the letters that come with new wine shipments. I’m more inclined to believe that those producers wanted to get the wines sold and delivered as quickly as possible. Those producers are motivated to sell their wines quickly, and they want to avoid having to store or warehouse their bottled wine.

Not sure why no one else mentioned this, but Paul certainly nailed one thing down - most wineries are bottling wines sooner and sooner for economic reasons, and they ‘know’ that these wines are not ready to drink when they ship them to you. They implore you NOT to open them, sometimes because they have just been bottled and the SO2 is too prevalent and sometimes because they know the wines are so backwards that they know the wine will perform better with some bottle age.

One does wonder in this situation if a consumer might expect a ‘discount’ because, to me, this is kinda like buying ‘futures’, no?

I do believe ‘travel shock’ is truly impossible to verify scientifically, even with the blind tasting concept that Chris S has suggested. Here’s the deal - and we all know this but forget about it - each and every bottle is unique. Period. How often have you had 2 bottles of 10+ year old wines that performed EXACTLY THE SAME side by side? It is just so rare that that happens due to the matrix of things that can change a wine - variances due to corks, variances due to unfiltered wines, etc.

I love the conversation and love the suggestions but at the end of the day, enjoy a wine when you want to enjoy it (and make sure you have a backup if any wine performs ‘poorly’)

Cheers!