I usually drink Oregon Pinot Noir and can’t think of one producer where I like the cheapest wines, best. Closest is probably Evesham Wood. Their entry level wines are excellent and almost as good as their more expensive bottlings.
With Washington State cab and syrah this isn’t always true. The producers that use heavy oak treatment for their expensive wines often over do it. I prefer their entry level wines as I think they are more balanced.
How often is often?
In any case, it’s not often the case amongst the pinot producers that I buy. At the same time, I’ve seen it be the case more often than one would think. But that’s still not more than like 10% of the time, at most. And maybe for other producers, it’s true more often than I suspect. But I’m happy with the folks that I buy from, and buy outside that limit quite rarely.
Thanks to all for the votes and replies. Not unhappy to see that I’m in the minority, although not a tiny minority.
Yes, ‘Sometimes lighter and occasionally better’ would have been a better way to put it, but poll questions cannot go over a certain length.
Of course it is normal and natural that the bigger bottlings are built for longer age, as per many responders. Al Osterhold put it pithily and well.
To Jim Anderson: I very emphatically did not mean Patricia Green Cellars; although I enjoy the basic bottlings more in their youth, I completely agree that the top bottlings are better wines with significant bottle age.
To Fred Bower: Your comment is very much in line with my original point. However I have to say that there are producers in Burgundy with centuries of experience who still err on the side of excessive extraction and oak.
Good points by Anton D’s wife and Joseph MR.
To R Frankel – Thank you for your eventual comment. I can think of very few things I would rather do than troll (murder comes to mind). I disagree that lighter wines are inherently less complex; I don’t think weight and complexity are closely related and could happily argue the opposite.
To Howard Cooper: You asked ‘better for what?’. My answer: To enjoy.
Dan Kravitz
That’s absurd. Based on aged bottles, quite a few in some cases, from Patricia Green, Thomas, Rhys, BV (really old), Eyrie, Belle Pente, and at least a couple of others. I suspect there are a few from the southern hemisphere that would make this list too, but I haven’t had those with any significant age.
Many customers love pinots from Russian river and it flies off the shelf for us. Some of the mid range Oregon pinots & burgundies have been kinda disappointing for me. I recommend Cru Beaujolais more often than not. I know it’s not the same thing, but find customers are happy with the recommendation.
I see where you’re going with that, and agree. Nor would I put your winery in the category. The array of vineyard designates really defines PGC, and the wines fall according to the vineyards.
But there are quite a few wineries where, for my palate, often the entry level wines are my favorite. The key words being, for my palate. Typically those wineries aren’t making bad wines at the upper levels, they’re just bigger and more extracted. As Peter noted though, that’s far less prevalent than it used to be. And vintage has a lot to do with it.
There are lots of wineries in Oregon where the upper level wines are just fantastic(for my palate) as well, so it’s kind of win-win. Drink the wines you like, and if the entry level is delicious, that’s not a problem.
For us the Willamette Valley bottling has a fair bit of press wine in it, so it tends to be a bit more accessible in youth though Inwould not say more elegant. But the vineyard sites I work with are exceptional and blend together reasonably well. At $25, it’s a value, and if someone likes it more than the upper tiers that’s great for them.
There are a number of smaller Oregon producers who put out an entry level Pinot Noir that is pretty modestly priced. It’s a great way to get an idea their style or to buy wine for near term drinking. I’ve liked many of them including Goodfellow, Evesham Woods, Arterberry Maresh, Vincent and I’m sure there are others I haven’t tried. At slightly higher price, I’ve liked entry wines from Kelley Fox and Eyrie. To me, there are lots of very enjoyable entry level Oregon Pinots. There are some exceptions, but California Pinots in lower price ranges tend to not be very interesting because they are aimed at different palates (and CA Pinot Noir grape prices are probably higher from the better sites).
-Al
It really depends on what producers you’re basing 20 years of experience on. I’ve posted before that I extensively tasted '05 CAs on release, then in 10 and 15 year retrospective series. A huge portion of the critic and wine board darlings were trying too hard and didn’t really know what they were doing. I can see how someone would hold your opinion, but that’s an era of relative newbies scrambling to make flashy wines to appeal to the only critic that mattered, who had no interest in mature wines or how or if they’d age. So, they were spoofed up to impress up front.
I suppose, in that light, for that sort of producer, Dan’s point would be true. Their low end AVA wines would be, by default, more balanced/less bastardized. To people who aren’t impressed by the lipstick on the pig, their AVA wines would be better. Of course, one may be better off steering clear of those producers in the first place, but YMMV.
I’ve also posted that the overall quality of CA PN has dramatically improved since then, so a lot of those same producers are making wines that age and improve with age well.
It can be true!
Not always, but sometimes.
That makes hunting/tasting even more fun.
Time to work on that Oregon selection, methinks. A lot of Oregon wines bear more of a family resemblance to Cru Beaujolais than does any Russian River Pinot I can think of. Nothing wrong with those wines, but they tend to stand out.
On second thought maybe that’s your point.
We dedicate a good amount of shelf space to willamette pinot noirs, but even producers like belle pente haven’t impressed me with their pinot noir. I prefer their pinot gris.
Funny but we used to have the same arguments about Napa cab forty years ago…the regular bottlings being more approachable, easier to drink etc whereas you always wondered if the reserve bottlings would ever come around.
Making generalizations is always fun but there are usually too many exceptions to the rule.
