I am going to a Persian restaurant this weekend and some of their wines are Lebanese and Armenian. I am not too familiar with the grape varietals in the reds or whites, but I want to try them.
Anyone familiar with the grapes: voskehat, garandmak, merwah, or areni noir? What would you compare them to?
I’ve had Musar Blanc many times, and it is 50% Merwah (the blend may vary some from vintage to vintage). The other 50% is Obaideh.
Musar Blanc is a world class ageworthy white. If I had to compare it to something, maybe the Riserva and Gran Riserva level Lopez de Heredia Blancos.
From what I’ve read, Merwah is considered similar to Semillon. Lower acid, nutty, honeyed. I think it’s rarely made as a stand alone varietal, but Ksara makes one from Lebanon.
That’s all I know from your list. Glad you’re exploring wines from that region.
This is helpful, thanks. I am excited to try them.
Agree with Chris_Seiber regarding Musar Blanc. Very unique and delicious (to some). I’d add that there is speculation that Obaideh is related to Chardonnay. I was told by a Somm serving Musar Blanc that it was one of Chardonnay’s parents. Seems that might be true but is otherwise unproven: Obaideh - White Wine Grape Variety | Wine-Searcher
Nonetheless, Musar Blanc is an amazing wine. It’s pretty unusual though. I love it, but I can see some not being crazy about the oxidative, nutty aromas. Rioja blanc is a good comparison. Whites from the Jura might have some similarities as well.
I’ve had exactly one bottle of Areni Noir. I didn’t take formal notes, and it was a few years ago. But I enjoyed it. It was nice, a pretty big bold purple fruited wine if I remember correctly. Here is some info and (an admittedly over the top) tasting note from SommSelect, where I got the bottle. Remember, they’re trying to sell the wine, so this isn’t necessarily objective. But it’ll give you an idea of what to expect: Obaideh - White Wine Grape Variety | Wine-Searcher
Disclaimer: I quoted the ancient history of Areni Noir cited in the SommSelect link as fact on a previous thread and got a little flack. So take it all with a grain of salt!
Hopefully they will also have a rosé or two at that restaurant. I have literally just walked home with my latest case of the 2020 Musar Jeune Rosé which is our number one daily drinker at the moment because it’s so versatile. The varieties (80% cinsault, 20% mourvèdre) may be familiar to many, but the result in the Lebanon is quite different from that in, say, Provence.
Oh, and if you do have any rosé then tell us about it here: Virtual Tasting for Charity Week 4 - Rosé - Dec 14-21 for Doctors without Borders - #3 by P_a_u_l_Christensen
I was quite sure that I had an areni from Zorah but couldn’t fine any notes or record. But if they have any good then I would definitely give it try. If for nothing else, it’s ownrooted vines and Armenia has a very long history of winemaking (I guess something like Georgia).
This is what JR mentioned in one of her tasting articles (E-European adventures)
“I’m sad not to be able to share the very special qualities of Armenia’s signature grape Areni Noir with tasters, but below I recommend a more expensive but hugely inspiring example, aged in traditional karas clay pots. Alberto Antonini, the Tuscan consultant winemaker to Armenian producer Zorah, describes Areni as like a cross between a Tuscan Sangiovese and a Burgundian Pinot Noir.”
Unless I am mixing grapes/wines up, then I think the above is quite fair though I believe the fruit/berry profile also includes a more darker range (as well).
Persian food should be quite wine friendly (been a long while since I last had it). Balanced and elegant flavors, quite transparent with the ingredients doing most of the talking, hardly ever anything spicy, more playing with flavors of saffron, sour berries, etc.
Let us know how it all went.
This sounds more like what I’ve experienced. A big, bold, purple-fruited wine made from Areni sounds quite unlike what I’ve seen, but then again, I haven’t had much. I guess it can be made into that style if somebody really wanted to.
From what I’ve understood, Obaideh and Merwah were believed to be local synonyms for Chardonnay and Sémillon (definitely not their ancestors, since Chardonnay and Sémillon are traced to be natural crosses that have happened in France at some point), but more recent research seems to point out that Obaideh and Merwah are actually old, local varieties and not related to Chardonnay or Sémillon. I believe I read somewhere that the confusion might’ve stemmed from some Chardonnay and Sémillon vineyards being incorrectly called at some point as vineyards of Obaideh and Merwah or vice versa.
Obaideh makes lighter, more neutral wines with more freshness and acidity, whereas Merwah contributes more fruit and floral notes, but can get quite oily and unctuous when very ripe. Chateau Musar’s white really does bring out the best from both the varieties.
Not sure where you got big and bold from?
If referring to my input the the word “also” was essential. I felt the fruit spectrum also included more darker fruits/berries than I usually would find in the other two.
Otto was quoting “big, bold, purple-friuited” from Noah’s description. I’ve only had one Areni, from Yacoubian Hobbs (the Hobbs being the same Paul Hobbs from CA), but agree with you/Otto that it was more Burgundian than big/bold. I would have guessed OR pinot if tasting blind.
Thanks Sam, I missed Noah’s input and Otto’s reply makes perfect sense now.
All of this is super helpful. I appreciate the insights!
After reviewing their wine list, they do have a Areni Noir, Zorah, Karasì 2019. I think I will give that a try.
Fwiw, here is a note on the 2017 of that wine: https://www.intowine.com/reviews/2017-zorah-karasi-armenia-vayots-dzor-wine-review
Btw, if it helps, you can search that site with terms such as Armenia, etc. Not a lot of notes, but I did put about 15 or 20 Armenian wines on there. Really interesting stuff.
I’ve only had one areni noir, a 2017 Karasi, earlier this year, that was definitely primary, darker fruited, some spices. At 12.5%, it was rather elegant, nice acidity, with low tannin. I enjoyed it.
This could help set the mood for you:
https://podcasts.apple.com/nl/podcast/ill-drink-to-that-wine-talk/id538210866?l=en&i=1000480641263
The few Areni I’ve had were bright in that they had some acidity, but they also had some depth and weren’t just about acid. To me they were somewhat like Syrah can be sometimes, although they didn’t taste like Syrah. They were all made with help from western producers, so they probably aren’t anything like what was made traditionally, which is probably a good thing. If you want to try one, Paul Hobbs is doing one with Yacoubian and it’s fairly available.
Obaideh is only grown in Lebanon as far as I know, which may be way off base. Like some of the other answers, I’ve only had it in Musar, and I’m not sure how “typical” Musar is. For me, it’s sui generis and I wouldn’t extrapolate much.
It is not related to Chardonnay though, and according to the very few Lebanese I know in the wine industry, it grows differently does not generally have the acidity of Chardonnay. The parents of Chardonnay are Pinot Noir and Gouais Blanc, both French grapes. People say it may be related because they like to think that the Crusaders brought it home to France from the Middle East, but I doubt that very much - it’s like the legend that Shiraz came from the city in Persia, whereas it’s the cross of Mondeuse Blanche and Dureza, both French.
But if you have a few of these, you can post here for our benefit! Cheers!
Second time trying Armenian Wine. My first try was a few years ago when my tailor Yacoubian gave me a bottle of the Hobbs/Yacoubian. Last night I had a bottle of the Zorah 2022. At 40 bucks it wasn’t particularly cheap. All in all a decent wine - Dark ruby color with decent acidity. On this thread comments include that it is a cross between a Sangiovese and Burgundian Pinot or might be confused for an Oregon Cali. I must say it had a bit of a Pinot profile to it with some bright acidity but there was also some decent fruit though not to be confused with a new world wine so if Oregon maybe a cool vintage? I kind thought more of a cross between a CF and an old world Pinot.
Interesting. I’m guessing this may be related to, or another name for, the Turkish red grape Kalecik Karası, which can be fairly light in color and whose aromas are often very similar to pinot (“often referred to as Turkey’s answer to Pinot Noir”). It’s grown around Ankara, and much of central Anatolia once had a large Armenian population, so it wouldn’t be surprising if this showed up over the border to the east in Armenia.
There is also the similar sounding Karasakız grape grown (apparently exclusively) on the (formerly Greek, now Turkish) Aegean island of Bozcaada, but that seems less likely given the geographic distance. Also, “karası” means black in Turkish, so it’s possible it’s part of the names of different red grapes.
This [click on link here] is a pretty good guide to Turkish grapes, based on my experience with the wines.
