So, were those zoning and visitation rules in place when the billionaire bought those places?
Eyes wide open?
“Buy it and then change the rules” seems like an baller oligarch move. I apologize for some lack of sympathy. He knew what he was buying and planned to pay based on rules at the time, then he wanted to muscle through the changes he desired?
I must be wrong on this.
Money changes almost everything. Results not guaranteed.
This has been really interesting to read as a consumer who’s newer to the wine world. Growing up, I’d often hear about the Napa of ‘old’ from my dad, how you used to be able to go to a free wine tasting and chat it up with the winemaker. Before I started really digging into wine, I had heard about Martha’s Vineyard and Montelena and how certain wineries / vineyards had a bit more history and ‘status.’
I remember going wine tasting for the first time with my fiancee in Napa and starting at Corison. Though it had fewer frills than some of the later places I visited on the trip (Heitz included), I remember seeing Cathy drive by on a cart just as we were coming out of the barrel room and we got to speak to her for a bit. What the winery lacked in ‘exclusivity,’ was more than made up for by the experience, that conversation, and the quality of the wines. It ended up being our favorite of the entire trip for that reason and we’re planning to open her wines at our wedding next year.
More recently, I went to Antica Terra last year and had an incredible experience. While not cheap, the tasting came with amazing food (from a James-Beard nominated-chef), wine, and even the ability to try pours of Burgundy and Bordeaux that I thought I’d never try in my lifetime. That same trip, I went to Kelley Fox which was a polar opposite experience and was incredible in its own way, as well.
Don’t get me wrong - I recognize it’s fun to feel ‘exclusive’ and to try amazing wines, but the frills sometimes truly are not needed. What made my now-favorite wineries win in the end were that they weren’t treating me like a walking wallet. I was someone who was trying to learn more about the history, the wine, and at the end of the day, just wanted amazing wine to drink at home. I didn’t want to have to feel like I was at a timeshare seminar with pricing explained in depth (and pamphlets shoved in my face) before I even sat down to try the wines.
As a consumer / ‘sucker’, everything in Napa feels like it’s $250 or more - the bottles AND the tastings. I’m getting bombarded with new projects and new releases and have to choose now between Heitz and Trailside and Realm and Stony Hill and and Dominus and and and… and I’m tired. That pricing is firmly in ‘special occasion’ territory to me. Some places make you buy bottles just for the privilege to visit a place. And that’s just the bottles themselves (and at that price range I’m also looking at 2nd growth Bordeaux). With the tastings, why should I go spend $300 pp on a tasting when I can:
I get that some of these places are storied and have incredible histories - I do. But at the end of the day, I only have a finite amount of money and I have yet to understand why I need to spend $150+ on a tasting that feels so… impersonal? Or if you are going to be expensive- missing the frills (or food in some cases) that justify the cost (both of the wines and the tasting) and make the experience extra special. If someone opened it at a dinner or I had the ability to try it on a menu or tasting machine, then yeah I could be talked into it. But otherwise, I’m good. Everything seems to be marketing itself as ‘luxury’ now without being able to properly justify why.
Especially for this board (of which I am a newer member), the pitch of “you can feel rich at our winery!” is not going to play very well, as most of the folks here strike me wine drinkers who are interested in wine as a wonderful agricultural product made by farmers/artisans/mad scientists and not as a luxury consumer commodity to show off to your rich d-bag friends how rich you are.
Bingo. For some people, that’s enough. I’ve met people who just want to sit at a nice patio, drink good wine, and that’s it. The history and the details from the tour go in one ear and out the other. And that’s fine!
I’m definitely not a part of that group and I expect most people in this forum aren’t as well.
As an aside - I remember chatting with someone at Oakville Grocery who maxed out a welcome offer with Realm (having never tried it) solely because they wanted the ability to take clients to the estate tastings and impress them (since I believe they’re not open to the general public).
Plus service fee, operations fee, and CC surcharge.
When the bill with tip line appears, don’t be cheap and trashy now.
But isn’t Napa kind of a proxy for the US right now? We have gotten way ahead of our skiis when it comes to pricing. Anything. When I moved here 15 years ago, this was still an affordable place, now it’s a noose around your neck each month. Death by a thousand cuts - with tip expected on top.
Where does it say “experiences” and “destinations” have to be expensive? Where does it always have to default to premiumization in wine? We can change it. Linne Calodo halved their tasting price from $40 to $20 a few years back. I don’t think they lost any business. It can be done. Napa winemakers have the power. Imagine if everyone in Napa just halved their tasting prices tomorrow?
Why does Napa have to be a proxy for the U.S. wine industry? Maybe non-Napa producers need to visibly push back.
Believe me, they are trying every chance that they can.
I believe Paso has probably done the best job of doing so - anyone else care to chime in re: this?
Cheers
I think they are to a larger degree. I’ve heard of a few that have lowered tasting prices, but I have not heard of any in Napa doing so (I could be wrong).
I personally think premium producers could lower prices on wine as well without having egg on their faces. Every business guy says to never go backwards, but what’s worse - not lowering your price and then you find the wine you paid $100 for at a Discount Grocery for $10.99, or an honest winery that rolls with the times?
There’s a way to frame it to your advantage: “We know tariffs are hitting you hard, so we’ve decided to do our bit to help”…or, “we’re here for you”…“to help out, we’ve decided to include shipping”… yadda, yadda.
Customers are very understanding when you level with them - they just want to feel like there is a human behind the brand and not a faceless conglomerate. It’s just that simple.
Be human. Provide good service. Don’t nickel and dime.
I think they’re too proud and stubborn to admit they raised their prices way beyond buying patterns and quickly at that. They’re drunk on the huge profits per bottle but they’ll be wrecked on the inventory and cash flow issues they’re bound to face.
No doubt. Losing money on a $125 fee makes no sense otherwise.
I just ran the ROI on my tastings for 2024. If I assume all 2024 sales from people I tasted with in 2024 are due to meeting them, then my ROI was, after all costs, 386%. If instead I assume 50% of revenues of 2024 visitors who were already buyers were due to meeting them and 100% of sales to new clients were due to meeting them, then ROI was 224%. And I charge nothing for tastings. But I am hyper focused on return on capital and make all capital investments with a Buffett-like 10 year time horizon in mind. If I also assume people I meet have a 12-year purchasing lifespan, which is my average based on turnover, then the lifetime ROI on initial tastings is well over 4000%. My sole problem is I cannot clone myself and I see far less clients than I am wish I could because I am the sole employee of our winery.
I believe Napa wineries have no real concept of investment horizon or the lifetime value of their clients. Given just today LVMH announced 10% layoffs of its wine division, I am hoping to gain even more market share against the competition in 2025, even if the economy declines.
Shipping is a great point. Including shipping is such an easy way to give away “price” without lowering price if you really want to be stubborn about keeping the same price levels.
Sounds like you’re doing quite well with your tastings. Is that driven by a high tasting to purchase conversion rate? Do you know what the industry norm is?
I’d also be curious if your price point has anything to do with it. I wonder if the high priced napa wineries have gotten themselves into a tasting doom loop. The wine prices are so high, a small percentage of visitors can afford to buy them. To make up for that they raise the prices of the tasting. High priced tasting means that some of the people who would have bought now don’t because the tasting fee eats into their budget. Fewer people buy. Prices go up to compensate and the cycle goes on.
You will assuredly increase your market share as fruit will be readily available later this year that others won’t buy. Cash flow will be critical this year.
I would argue that sitting with a winemaker or owner-operator is much more valuable to me as a customer than a tasting room employee who doesn’t share the same passion.
Would love to meet with you next time I am there!
Similar to the SF Chronicle article linked above, I’m curious about thoughts on this publicized experience as well. I know it’s promoted as a “bespoke” and exclusive experience, but $3,000 for up to 6 people seems a bit…much…
I often get the feeling I’m paying for lush landscaping and a venue experience more than I am the contents of a bottle at a lot of these places. Would prefer a repurposed barn with woodpecker holes in the plank siding as a tasting room, with my wine poured by someone who touched it before it touched glass.
Tasted in the barn with Will Bucklin at Old Hill two weeks back. Enjoyable tasting
“We can curate that.”