Latour 2009 released

[Mark_Golodetz]

Your numbers are way off. Latour produces about 11,000 cases of the Grand Vin each year. The price you’re looking at is retail, not wholesale. Latour gets between 50/60% of retail.

At 50%, if they sold every bottle that is about 70 million dollars. A lot of money. But when you consider that the entire company of Mr. Pinault brings in maybe 18 Billion Dollars a year, it’s a small drop in a very large bucket

You are confusing revenues and profit. As I said the sales of Latour 2009 are almost all profit, as sales of Les Forts and the third wine probably take care of operating costs. I am closer to $800 a bottle ex chateau allowing for usual negotiant and retailer margins, which brings in around $1billion about half of the overall profit LVMH made during the last six months which have plunged thanks to Covid.

LVMH first half profit plunges 68 percent

Check your math … Even at $800 (which seems high given the typical mark ups seen in the 3 tier system), 11000 cases is just over $100 million in revenue. As Dan said, this is mouse nuts when looking at the total revenue of all of Pinault’s enterprises.

Yes, arithmetic is way off, threw in an extra 0. Still think $100 million is not to be sneezed at, when others making a loss.

Also, the stores offering the wines are buying directly from the negotiants. No middlemen.

[Anton_D]

This is a toy to be milked, from a financial point of view a footnote buried really deep in corporate reports. I would guess that total revenue from Latour is not remotely 1% of the Pinault group’s income. Come on, this is Yves St Laurent, Gucci, Balenciaga. Latour is nothing (unless you happen to like wine).

Dan Kravitz

18,000 cases of this wine.

That’s 216,000 bottles.

1,230 bucks per bottle.

Seems like a few bucks.

Your numbers are way off. Latour produces about 11,000 cases of the Grand Vin each year. The price you’re looking at is retail, not wholesale. Latour gets between 50/60% of retail.

At 50%, if they sold every bottle that is about 70 million dollars. A lot of money. But when you consider that the entire company of Mr. Pinault brings in maybe 18 Billion Dollars a year, it’s a small drop in a very large bucket

The grand vin Chateau Latour normally has an annual production of 18,000 cases. The second wine has an average annual production of 11,000 cases.

Mark posted ex chateau. Around $1230 a bottle. If 800 is closer, still big coin.

[Mark_Golodetz]

The ex chateau was about provenance.

[Mark_Golodetz]

Latour 2009 released ex-chateau
Latour 2009 has been re-released from the cellars of the estate at €860 per bottle ex-negotiant, up 11.7% on the initial release (€770). Chateau Latour left the En Primeur system after the release of 2011 vintage. They had however, been gradually reducing the amount of wine sold En Primeur from the early 2000s in anticipation of their new sales strategy.
From Liv-ex

That is $1023 and change.

[Br1an_Th0rne]

Latour 2009 released ex-chateau
Latour 2009 has been re-released from the cellars of the estate at €860 per bottle ex-negotiant, up 11.7% on the initial release (€770). Chateau Latour left the En Primeur system after the release of 2011 vintage. They had however, been gradually reducing the amount of wine sold En Primeur from the early 2000s in anticipation of their new sales strategy.
From Liv-ex

That is $1023 and change.

Latour would have been better off to release all of their 2009 en premieur back in 2010. Those were crazy times, and the first growths were ridiculously priced EP. Would you rather have €860 today or €770 ten years ago? SP500 has tripled during that timeframe.

[Jeff_Leve]

18,000 cases of this wine.

That’s 216,000 bottles.

1,230 bucks per bottle.

Seems like a few bucks.

Your numbers are way off. Latour produces about 11,000 cases of the Grand Vin each year. The price you’re looking at is retail, not wholesale. Latour gets between 50/60% of retail.

At 50%, if they sold every bottle that is about 70 million dollars. A lot of money. But when you consider that the entire company of Mr. Pinault brings in maybe 18 Billion Dollars a year, it’s a small drop in a very large bucket

The grand vin Chateau Latour normally has an annual production of 18,000 cases. The second wine has an average annual production of 11,000 cases.

Mark posted ex chateau. Around $1230 a bottle. If 800 is closer, still big coin.

Where do you get those numbers from ?

You’re wrong. You’re not even close.

As a matter of fact, 2009 at Latour was quite small. Even less than I first posted. The production was only 8,000 cases of the Grand Vin.

Your numbers are wrong as well. Where did you get those ? Latour only receives 50-60% of retail. Still a lot of money. But as I said earlier, it’s a drop in the bucket against their revenue stream.

[Mark_Golodetz]

Jeff,
You always sound a little belligerent when you are disputing facts.

Clearly, Latour is not working on 50-60% of retail. The price is €860 ex negotiant who typically work on a 10% margin. So depending on what you define as retail (I used $1225) it is close to 75% of retail.

[crickey]

They released about 1,000 cases in this latest release. Whatever happened in 2010-11 is water under the bridge. True, even assuming $800 comes to Latour, it’s a small pittance in the greater corporate scheme, but like any other large conglomerate, every part, no matter how small, needs to maximize its profit. According to UK sources, the release price represented about a 10% premium to the current UK market price. The underlying assumption in Mark’s objection is that the current market price is due primarily to scarcity and limited availability and does not accurately reflect the actual clearing price of 1,000 new cases. No one know yet whether that is true. The UK merchants I checked seem to have sold through. It’s still available in the US.

[Mark_Golodetz]

I talked to a couple of UK merchants who were not happy at the pricing, and passed.

[Anton_D]

Your numbers are way off. Latour produces about 11,000 cases of the Grand Vin each year. The price you’re looking at is retail, not wholesale. Latour gets between 50/60% of retail.

At 50%, if they sold every bottle that is about 70 million dollars. A lot of money. But when you consider that the entire company of Mr. Pinault brings in maybe 18 Billion Dollars a year, it’s a small drop in a very large bucket

The grand vin Chateau Latour normally has an annual production of 18,000 cases. The second wine has an average annual production of 11,000 cases.

Mark posted ex chateau. Around $1230 a bottle. If 800 is closer, still big coin.

Where do you get those numbers from ?

You’re wrong. You’re not even close.

As a matter of fact, 2009 at Latour was quite small. Even less than I first posted. The production was only 8,000 cases of the Grand Vin.

Your numbers are wrong as well. Where did you get those ? Latour only receives 50-60% of retail. Still a lot of money. But as I said earlier, it’s a drop in the bucket against their revenue stream.

Wikipedia…

Château Latour

Chateau Latour, Pauillac, Bordeaux, Complete Guide

Production of Chateau Latour has been intentionally declining over the years and the quality, concentration and complexity has been increasing, along with the price.

…the 2000 vintage had 15,000 cases were produced.Since that time, production has ranged. For example, in 2003, production was 10,800 cases, 2005 saw 12,000 cases and in 2010 close to 11,000 cases were produced of Chateau Latour."

So, maybe not 18,000.

But, then, ‘Wine Investment’ says…

Annual Production ​(Grand Vin) 16-18,000 cases

Chateau Latour

Tell you what, you can keep your numbers and we can all chat about the prices.

[Jeff_Leve]

The grand vin Chateau Latour normally has an annual production of 18,000 cases. The second wine has an average annual production of 11,000 cases.

Mark posted ex chateau. Around $1230 a bottle. If 800 is closer, still big coin.

Where do you get those numbers from ?

You’re wrong. You’re not even close.

As a matter of fact, 2009 at Latour was quite small. Even less than I first posted. The production was only 8,000 cases of the Grand Vin.

Your numbers are wrong as well. Where did you get those ? Latour only receives 50-60% of retail. Still a lot of money. But as I said earlier, it’s a drop in the bucket against their revenue stream.

Wikipedia…

Château Latour - Wikipedia

Learn about Chateau Latour Pauillac, Complete Guide

Production of Chateau Latour has been intentionally declining over the years and the quality, concentration and complexity has been increasing, along with the price.

…the 2000 vintage had 15,000 cases were produced.Since that time, production has ranged. For example, in 2003, production was 10,800 cases, 2005 saw 12,000 cases and in 2010 close to 11,000 cases were produced of Chateau Latour."

So, maybe not 18,000.

But, then, ‘Wine Investment’ says…

Annual Production ​(Grand Vin) 16-18,000 cases

Chateau Latour | Pauillac | Wine Academy | Cult Wines

Tell you what, you can keep your numbers and we can all chat about the prices.

FWIW, you should read my site, not Wine Investment. I am close to accurate. I am not sure Latour ever made 18,000 cases. To do that, all 47 hectares would have to be in production, yields would need to be good and every grape on every vine would have to go into the Grand Vin. That is not the case as Latour.

But 8,000 for 2009 is correct.

All about Latour - Learn about Chateau Latour Pauillac, Complete Guide

We can of course chat about price. Me, I do not care how much a winery charges. The market will accept it or not. I suspect with time, the market buy it slowly.

[Jeff_Leve]

Jeff,
You always sound a little belligerent when you are disputing facts.

Clearly, Latour is not working on 50-60% of retail. The price is €860 ex negotiant who typically work on a 10% margin. So depending on what you define as retail (I used $1225) it is close to 75% of retail.

I am stating facts, not disputing them, esecially about the number of cases produced.

Most of the time, it is suggested that negociants take a 20% margin. Guessing that retailers make on average 20%, and that is for those not in the 3 tier system, that give Latour 60%, give or take.

It is a lot of money to us. But as I said earlier, it is a minor fraction of what all the Pinault owned companies bring in.

[Dale_Bowers]

Hell, I have some 1990 stored since release I’d sell for that.

[Mark_Golodetz]

Jeff,
You always sound a little belligerent when you are disputing facts.

Clearly, Latour is not working on 50-60% of retail. The price is €860 ex negotiant who typically work on a 10% margin. So depending on what you define as retail (I used $1225) it is close to 75% of retail.

I am stating facts, not disputing them, esecially about the number of cases produced.

Most of the time, it is suggested that negociants take a 20% margin. Guessing that retailers make on average 20%, and that is for those not in the 3 tier system, that give Latour 60%, give or take.

It is a lot of money to us. But as I said earlier, it is a minor fraction of what all the Pinault owned companies bring in.

Negotiants dream of 20%. Then they wake to the reality of 10%; occasionally an extra couple of points. That being said, a special sweetheart deal may have been worked out. Jeff, you know Engerer; if there is no upside for him to take money off the table, do you think he would do it?