While I am at it, here is an old report I did on two Chateauneufs last year. I was just curious about their alcohol levels. My notes say that the 1961 is a Paul Jaboulet… Aine (??) and the 1978 is a Rayas.
Ha! That actually made me snort out loud!
Interesting numbers & analysis; thanks.
So here’s a question for anyone who cares to answer it. Can Brett (let’s say 4-EP) bloom/increase in a wine post-bottling? If so, is there a possibility that a wine could be bottled with acceptable levels of Brett per lab analysis, but with several years of aging the Brett could bloom/increase to highly undesirable levels?
Bruce
There is a thread about 2003 Pegau with lab analysis in one of the posts.
Similar results.
I was wondering the same thing…coupled with temperature variation. Would two bottles that were bottled with the same juice, then kept at different temps (or with one spiking briefly to a much higher temp), lead to different levels of brett or at least a different perception of brett?
[quote=“Bruce Leiserowitz”]Interesting numbers & analysis; thanks.
So here’s a question for anyone who cares to answer it. Can Brett (let’s say 4-EP) bloom/increase in a wine post-bottling? If so, is there a possibility that a wine could be bottled with acceptable levels of Brett per lab analysis, but with several years of aging the Brett could bloom/increase to highly undesirable levels?
Bruce[/quotYes, if it was bottled unfiltered.
The Clos de Pape must have cleaned up its’ act. I’ve had a couple of mid 1990’s that were Bretty as hell.
Let me first caveat that I start to fall asleep when I see this type of detailed scientific data (ADHD problem). But that said, I continued reading. If in fact we are talking about Pegau, I don’t get it. IMHO, it’s a fantastic bottle of wine and I did not detect any unpleasant bretty notes. I scanned CT on the 2004 Pegau, and not a mention of brett. So if it is Pegau, is the answer to Bruce’s fair question “yes”? I always assumed that to be the case, that brett could bloom/increase once a bottling that had some levels of it inside, was subject to less than stellar storage or shipping conditions. I have experienced that with Joguet bottlings before (notably, the 2005 Joguet Franc de Pied from different sources, some outstanding, some barely drinkable).
For the record, the 2004 Clos des Papes is damn fine as well, but the last 2003 I had was a brett bomb.
Those guys are both idiots.
P is notorious for Brett. In a long thread on the other board, the owner/winemaker posted several times, and said he/she likes the contribution of brett to his/her wine. Even so, when I encounter a relatively clean bottle of P, it can be marvelous (problem is finding bottles that haven’t suffered from any kind through the shipment and delivery process).
Cool stuff Roy. Thanks. Brett can indeed bloom in the bottle which makes transportation issues so relevant. IIRC, I saw somewhere that it takes a short exposure over 75F to really get the process started. Luckily, i have a pretty good tolerance for Brett.
Interesting that these were both 04’s as well. I never checked but thought that the Alc. would be lower. I just had an 04 Clos des Papes. Enjoyable but I thought that it lacked ripeness. Even for Grenache to get up to 15% without tasting (over?) ripe is interesting. Whereas a 375 consumed last October had quite a bit of barnyard. Was it Brett? I don’t know, possibly. I am would think they do multiple bottling lines or did back then.
2010 had the highest average harvest brix, for Pinot in Sonoma, Monterey, SLO and Santa Barbara counties since 2004 per Grape Crush Report.
Now back to your CdPs.
Adam Lee
Siduri Wines
Brett can bloom in the bottle and become more of a problem in the wine’s evolution than it was at the winery. This is precisely why I chafe at the assertion that there is an “acceptable level of brett” at the bottling stage. I suppose it is theoretically possible that some trace amounts are irrelevant no matter how they may later grow, but brett is a flaw. It doesn’t belong in wine. This is the “its just got a little spam in it” defense. Wineries can prevent it but many have no interest in doing so. That is one reason that I no longer buy Pegau
Thanks for your response, and the others as well. I suspect this may be the reason for the huge Brett bottle variation in something like the 1989 Beaucastel CdP as well. Some people have written tasting notes that indicate that the wine is a total Brett bomb more akin to riding a sweaty horse than drinking wine. By contrast, most of the bottles I’ve opened have much “tamer” levels of Brett that didn’t detract from the wine itself.
Bruce
Un-refridgerated vs. refrigerated shipping perhaps?
Well, assuming that the Brett blooms faster at warmer temps, then it’s either (a) unrefrigerated shipping, and/or (b) storage in wine stores or homes at room temps. for an extended period of time.
Bruce
Two other terms really need to be thrown into the mix here - filtration and RS. When a wine is filtered (sterile, at least), unless there are issues with the filter, you will not have further blooms in bottle - period. If the wine is bottled with some brett issues, these will remain - but will not get ‘worse’ . . .
And if a wine has no food for the brett cells to feed on - mainly a nice carbon source like sugar - it will not grow any further. And as we all know, almost all red wines have at least trace amounts of RS at bottling - with some having A LOT MORE than that ta boot . . .
Carry on . . .
Higher temperatures almost always accelerate physiological processes (within physiological ranges, of course).
I did not realize that, great info…
BTW, I had a a lovely 2007 Siduri Sapphire Hill Pinot last night… Yummy!
E-
On the variable brett question and growth in the bottle, a recent article in Practicle Winery and Vineyard just pointed to oxygen ingress as one of the primary factors in growth of brett in the bottle and specifically pointed to corks as a factor in this growth.
Adam Lee
Siduri Wines
For what it’s worth, on the issue of brett variation from bottle to bottle, I bought three bottles of the 1998 Pégaü Cuvée Réservée from Wine Club in June 2004. Perfect storage since then. The first two bottles, consumed in October 2005 and August 2008, respectively, were flat-out crazy good, with simply beautiful fruit and very complex. I didn’t pick up any brett, though I’m not particularly averse to a small dose in my CndP. The third bottle, consumed just over a week ago, was a horrible mess of band-aid, horse crap, and whatever other descriptor you can put to brett spoilage. I thought it was vile, and simply couldn’t choke down more than a few sips.
While I don’t mind a small dose of brett, I certainly do not view it as “terroir” in any way, shape or form. On that score, this is my note on Pertimali’s 2007 RdM, which at least one poster said had the terroir of a “good Montalcino”: “Another bottle of liquid horse poop – and I’m not even particularly brett-averse; I’d hate to see what the brett-sensitive types would say about this. For anyone who thinks this is “terroir,” it’s not – unless the terroir has been fertilized by two tons of manure per square yard. Thankfully, my last bottle of this swill.” What am I missing? Why do people so often associate brett with terroir?