Kosta Browne

[Tom_Lee]

I’ve only had great customer service experiences with Kosta Browne and have been buying off the list since '05.

Pricing is subjective but with Rochioli Estate at $54 and wines like Williams Selyem Russian River Valley at $49 I think KB is in the ballpark.

Tom

[David_M]

Looks like there were some major changes in fruit sources for the 2011 vintage of the RRV pinot. Seven vineyards dropped and/or added between 2010 and 2011(as per Kosta’s tech sheets). I wonder how this will affect the profile of the wine.

[Chris_Seiber]

@Bud Carey

@Chris Seiber

Mark, you won’t get offered any of the fall SVD wines unless you buy the spring appellation wines steadily for several years (or maybe you’ll get an opportunity to wish list some SVDs which you probably will never then receive), so for the next few years, if you choose to stick with it, you’ll just get a modestly increasing allocation of these spring appellation wines.

The SVD wines are similar to the appellation wines, but a little “more” (concentration, power, intensity, money). I think most people who like the regular bottlings would also like the SVDs, but may or may not find them as favorable of a QPR.

Chris… I’ve been a buyer since the 2002 vintge. Recently, the idea of KB and QPR don’t belong in the same sentence!!

While I take your point, I was using QPR as a relative term for measurement. Every wine has a quality and a price, for which you can make a ratio. Ridge Monte Bello isn’t what is conventionally a “QPR wine” at $100, but I think you could compare its QPR against, say, Insignia, GdL and Mondavi Reserve, and see what wine for you delivers more quality relative to the price out of your options.

[Kirk.Grant]

My major issue with KB was their drastic price increase in such a short time. I see it largely as greed. If they could sell their wines (Sonoma) for $36 in 2005 and now the price has almost doubled in less than a decade? Added to that there’s an attitude that appears to not respect or appreciate their past customers…to me it is a model for a business that is not looking long term NOR is it sustainable.

[Leonard_Taylor]

@Kirk.Grant

My major issue with KB was their drastic price increase in such a short time. I see it largely as greed. If they could sell their wines (Sonoma) for $36 in 2005 and now the price has almost doubled in less than a decade? Added to that there’s an attitude that appears to not respect or appreciate their past customers…to me it is a model for a business that is not looking long term NOR is it sustainable.

+1

[timmy_roos]

@b. c@stner

@timmy roos

This will be my first pass. I like the wines but they have reached and exceeded the “too expensive” threshhold. I guess my attention has turned elsewhere to an extent as many other wines that I get equal enjoyment can be had for 2/3 the price.

Timmy, you like like the KB style but not at the current price it sounds like? What wines are you finding at 2/3 the price, say $19, that you think deliver? I buy some KB but certainly interested in less costly alternatives as well.

I get as much enjoyment from Loring Pinots and their AVAs run about 1/2 of KB IIRC.

[Vamsi_Kaipa]

I got an offer from KB. My offering is wish list offer Sonoma Coast PN. I have to prove myself by asking for bottles and may get some if other pass on Sonoma Coast PN. This is hilarious!!!

I AM DONE. My money is for Maison Ilan, Pisoni, Rhys, Littorai and Dehlinger. Funds better spent.

[Russ_Williams]

@Kirk.Grant

My major issue with KB was their drastic price increase in such a short time. I see it largely as greed. If they could sell their wines (Sonoma) for $36 in 2005 and now the price has almost doubled in less than a decade? Added to that there’s an attitude that appears to not respect or appreciate their past customers…to me it is a model for a business that is not looking long term NOR is it sustainable.

The Vincraft Group purchased a controlling interest several years ago for $40MM. That is a whole lotta moola to recoup. It will be interesting to see if they are ultimately successful.

[Bill_Tex_Landreth]

@Russ Williams

@Kirk.Grant

My major issue with KB was their drastic price increase in such a short time. I see it largely as greed. If they could sell their wines (Sonoma) for $36 in 2005 and now the price has almost doubled in less than a decade? Added to that there’s an attitude that appears to not respect or appreciate their past customers…to me it is a model for a business that is not looking long term NOR is it sustainable.

The Vincraft Group purchased a controlling interest several years ago for $40MM. That is a whole lotta moola to recoup. It will be interesting to see if they are ultimately successful.

9200 cases = 110400 bottles X $68/bottle = $7.5 million for JUST the appellation wines. Not knowing the margins, I would think the money would be recouped rather quickly…as in a decade.

[Russ_Williams]

@Bill Tex Landreth

@Russ Williams

@Kirk.Grant

My major issue with KB was their drastic price increase in such a short time. I see it largely as greed. If they could sell their wines (Sonoma) for $36 in 2005 and now the price has almost doubled in less than a decade? Added to that there’s an attitude that appears to not respect or appreciate their past customers…to me it is a model for a business that is not looking long term NOR is it sustainable.

The Vincraft Group purchased a controlling interest several years ago for $40MM. That is a whole lotta moola to recoup. It will be interesting to see if they are ultimately successful.

9200 cases = 110400 bottles X $68/bottle = $7.5 million for JUST the appellation wines. Not knowing the margins, I would think the money would be recouped rather quickly…as in a decade.

Holy crap!!! I had no clue they had already increased production to this magnitude. The quality of the wine is still high??? So much for KB being a boutique pinot producer. I guess we now know what all the new vineyard sourcing might be about.

[Bill_Tex_Landreth]

Exactly. Throw in the SVD wines, and you are talking $10 to 15 Million in annual revenues. Pretty substantial by any measure.

[Chris_Seiber]

@Bill Tex Landreth

@Russ Williams

@Kirk.Grant

My major issue with KB was their drastic price increase in such a short time. I see it largely as greed. If they could sell their wines (Sonoma) for $36 in 2005 and now the price has almost doubled in less than a decade? Added to that there’s an attitude that appears to not respect or appreciate their past customers…to me it is a model for a business that is not looking long term NOR is it sustainable.

The Vincraft Group purchased a controlling interest several years ago for $40MM. That is a whole lotta moola to recoup. It will be interesting to see if they are ultimately successful.

9200 cases = 110400 bottles X $68/bottle = $7.5 million for JUST the appellation wines. Not knowing the margins, I would think the money would be recouped rather quickly…as in a decade.

The appellation bottles are $58, not $68, just FYI.

Hey, they make a product that a lot of people really like and are willing to pay a lot of money for, so they’re probably doing well financially. Same as Apple, In N Out Burger, Lulu Lemon, and so forth. There are no victims.

And you could make quite a list of WB board darlings whose prices have gone up that much in the last decade. It is a bummer when it happens, though – watching Musar, Mascarello, Rhys and others (including most wines from Burgundy and Bordeaux) climb in price is tough for someone like me who loves those wines.

[Bill_Tex_Landreth]

My bad. I thought I saw $68.

Agreed there are no victims. I was only trying to point out that they should be able to make their money back in the medium term vs. a long term investment.

[AndrewH]

@Chris Seiber

And you could make quite a list of WB board darlings whose prices have gone up that much in the last decade. It is a bummer when it happens, though – watching Musar, Mascarello, Rhys and others (including most wines from Burgundy and Bordeaux) climb in price is tough for someone like me who loves those wines.

'tis true. Keep in mind that during that period, inflation was ~20-25%, which explains a decent chunk of it.

And of course any wine that is introduced is likely to be at a lower price than the producers hope it will ultimately fetch. Once it gains popularity in the market it’s no surprise that the introductory pricing disappears.

We’d all love pricing to hold the line every year, but that’s just not realisitic.

[Darian_Wilson]

i stopped buying KB after the 07 vintage. i didn’t find the wines to be aging well. they just became to goppy and unbalanced over time. in fact, i just had my last bottle at xmas time. i struggled through it. to each his own i suppose

[Chris_Seiber]

I don’t think they’re really for longer aging, though the vintages from 07 forward should do a lot better in that regard than 06 on backwards, due to the stylistic shift. They’re probably still best to drink within 3-4 years of release now, I would guess.

[Kirk.Grant]

@Chris Seiber

@Kirk.Grant

My major issue with KB was their drastic price increase in such a short time. I see it largely as greed. If they could sell their wines (Sonoma) for $36 in 2005 and now the price has almost doubled in less than a decade? Added to that there’s an attitude that appears to not respect or appreciate their past customers…to me it is a model for a business that is not looking long term NOR is it sustainable.

The appellation bottles are $58, not $68, just FYI.

Hey, they make a product that a lot of people really like and are willing to pay a lot of money for, so they’re probably doing well financially. Same as Apple, In N Out Burger, Lulu Lemon, and so forth. There are no victims.

And you could make quite a list of WB board darlings whose prices have gone up that much in the last decade. It is a bummer when it happens, though – watching Musar, Mascarello, Rhys and others (including most wines from Burgundy and Bordeaux) climb in price is tough for someone like me who loves those wines.

I don’t know that it’s fair to lump Musar into that STEEP price increase. I saw the 2004 Musar red for $26 at JJ Buckley about 6 months ago…That’s less than the $36 I paid for the 1995 back in 2007. I know the back vintage wines are climbing steeply in price. Yet, I’m fine with that…to me that’s different. It’s also different when a wine had decades under their belt virses just barely 10 years. However, your point about the price is valid. I guess going from 38/bottle to 58/bottle isn’t a far fetch…it’s about the same rate of shift in gas prices in that time…

[Craig_Roush]

I finally pulled the trigger on my first offer today. I’ve always been intrigued to try it out, and figured this was the easiest way to do it. From the sounds of it, these are pretty acessible early, so I can try a bottle of each before next year’s release, and if I don’t like it, then I will bow out.

[Chris_Peterson]

Wow, lots of hate for KB here. Yes, the prices have risen, but I see people jumping at the chance to buy $100+ bottles of wine then complain about $58 appellation wines, which by the way are better than anybodies appellation wines out there (and in many cases better than the KB SVD’s because Michael is a master at blending).

They have over 10,000 people on their wait list. They could charge $100/bottle for their SVD’s, but so far they haven’t. The same can’t be said for Rochioli and some of the WS SVD’s…once that price point hit’s $100, I’m out…but until then, and for my palate, KB can’t be beat. We just popped a 2003 4B for the Superbowl and it was drinking wonderfully, and I’m currently drinking the 2006’s and they are showing no signs of premature aging. I admit the 2005’s had some problems with being over the hill when I was drinking those about 18 months ago, but I’ve not run across that since, and I open a KB about once a week.

You can’t compare their prices from when they were renting space from the Freeman’s to their prices when they have moved THREE times since then. Their fruit prices keep rising…the barrel prices have increased with quality…the equipment costs have gone way up…they have a lot of overhead to deal with…they have numerous employees because of their production levels and customer demand…and yes, they have to please their investors. I’m sure they are fighting to keep prices where they are. These guys are NOT arrogant, and they do care about their customers. I know Michael, Dan and Chris…as well as many staff members quite well…they are as down to earth as you can get. If you don’t like the price then fine…but damn do you guys love to pile on the hate. There are plenty of arrogant wineries and winery owners out there…and when I find them I stop buying…I don’t care how good their wine is…you couldn’t give me a bottle. What’s really humorous is I see them getting a free pass on this board…but great guys like Michael get slammed.

Yes, I know I’m KB’s main cheerleader…but it seems somebody has to stick up for them. The Parker Board was bad…but it seems the same people moved over here. The funny part is when I asked Michael about some of the people posting that they had stopped buying the wine, he looked them up and that wasn’t the case. It’s like sport to try to denigrate those who have shown success. I get enough of that at work…I don’t need to see it here.

[Tom_Lee]

@Chris Peterson

Wow, lots of hate for KB here. Yes, the prices have risen, but I see people jumping at the chance to buy $100+ bottles of wine then complain about $58 appellation wines, which by the way are better than anybodies appellation wines out there (and in many cases better than the KB SVD’s because Michael is a master at blending).

They have over 10,000 people on their wait list. They could charge $100/bottle for their SVD’s, but so far they haven’t. The same can’t be said for Rochioli and some of the WS SVD’s…once that price point hit’s $100, I’m out…but until then, and for my palate, KB can’t be beat. We just popped a 2003 4B for the Superbowl and it was drinking wonderfully, and I’m currently drinking the 2006’s and they are showing no signs of premature aging. I admit the 2005’s had some problems with being over the hill when I was drinking those about 18 months ago, but I’ve not run across that since, and I open a KB about once a week.

You can’t compare their prices from when they were renting space from the Freeman’s to their prices when they have moved THREE times since then. Their fruit prices keep rising…the barrel prices have increased with quality…the equipment costs have gone way up…they have a lot of overhead to deal with…they have numerous employees because of their production levels and customer demand…and yes, they have to please their investors. I’m sure they are fighting to keep prices where they are. These guys are NOT arrogant, and they do care about their customers. I know Michael, Dan and Chris…as well as many staff members quite well…they are as down to earth as you can get. If you don’t like the price then fine…but damn do you guys love to pile on the hate. There are plenty of arrogant wineries and winery owners out there…and when I find them I stop buying…I don’t care how good their wine is…you couldn’t give me a bottle. What’s really humorous is I see them getting a free pass on this board…but great guys like Michael get slammed.

Yes, I know I’m KB’s main cheerleader…but it seems somebody has to stick up for them. The Parker Board was bad…but it seems the same people moved over here. The funny part is when I asked Michael about some of the people posting that they had stopped buying the wine, he looked them up and that wasn’t the case. It’s like sport to try to denigrate those who have shown success. I get enough of that at work…I don’t need to see it here.

+1. Well done!

Tom