Keller Silliness

[C_Mc_Cart]

One could read the entire 2nd page and unless you read the thread title, you’d be hard pressed to know the topic.
No other contribution to offer, other that I’m going to look for an Austrian Riesling to crack right now.

[Sarah_Kirschbaum]

Naturally you can’t have market pricing like this without a population of people paying the price, and it’s not terribly easy to question what the heck they’re thinking in doing so without the subtextual implication that they’re slaves to fashion or just boring ol’ conspicuous consumers, but the floor is still open for alternative explanations. “They’re worth the price!” is only a persuasive explanation from those who were backing up the truck on caseloads and caseloads of the stuff when they sold for a fraction of the current price, and it still doesn’t account for why the pop is so recent.

In the N.Y. market, the Keller importer is Moore Bros. The wines mainly used to be sold through their N.Y. store although of course you get them at crush and other places, but German wine is more of a niche and they didn’t pop up everywhere. You could walk into Moore Bros and ask for the Kellerkiste. Up until late 2018, you could walk into Moore Bros and buy back-vintage Keller at release prices. As late as September 2018, they still had mags of 2012 GG there for release price. As the wines started to gain in popularity, my sense is that Moore Bros began selling most of the Keller GG to restaurants, leaving some for retail but not nearly as much. That’s a sensible decision if restaurants are also buying 50 cases of daily drinkers, but it makes it harder for individuals to buy the wines at release. So then you get secondary market sellers testing the maximum price. That takes a few vintages to find the upper price limit, but someone will get there eventually. Based on zachys prices for the 2018s ($300 for hubacker/kirchspiel, $500 for Absterde) and the speed at which they sold, it seems like the price has room to climb.
Of course, NYC doesn’t make the market, but once you have proof that you can move something for a price 3x of what you’ve been selling it, you are going to find a lot of people increasing their price. My sense is that at this point almost all of the GGs that Moore Bros brings in has been going to restaurants rather than retail and that the number of bottles coming to individual consumers through official import channels is relatively small.

Small correction - Moore Brothers does not sell wine to restaurants and they are not an importer. Sussex is the importer. They work closely together - if Sussex is bringing it in, chances are Moore Brothers is selling it - but it’s incorrect to think that Moore Brothers is selling to restaurants. Whatever comes to the retail stores goes to retail customers. Sussex, of course, has restaurant accounts.

To be a little fair, there’s a prejudice almost industry-wide these days towards on-premise sales, even more so in the spirits space. Makes marketing sense: with one bottle at a bar, you can influence dozens of people, not just the one who gets the allocation at a shop.

[A_Gillette]

^ thanks for the correction.

[Robert_Dentice]

Since first seeing this thread, I have started to write a lengthy informed post on the history of Keller’s price escalation several times. Honestly I just don’t have the energy. I am drinking a 2019 Ulli Stein Blauschiefer that is life affirming. I am guessing with the tariff it is under $25. My recommendation to buy this wine should prove to be of far greater value to readers than a historical analysis of GG’s, Keller, instagram, Austrian wines in the U.S., relative value pricing and on and on. If you buy it and don’t like I will give you your money back. I only wish I could be drinking and discussing this wine with Klaus-Peter Keller.

[David_Bu3ker]

Since first seeing this thread, I have started to write a lengthy informed post on the history of Keller’s price escalation several times. Honestly I just don’t have the energy. I am drinking a 2019 Ulli Stein Blauschiefer that is life affirming. I am guessing with the tariff it is under $25. My recommendation to buy this wine should prove to be of far greater value to readers than a historical analysis of GG’s, Keller, instagram, Austrian wines in the U.S., relative value pricing and on and on. If you buy it and don’t like I will give you your money back. I only wish I could be drinking and discussing this wine with Klaus-Peter Keller.

Who is importing Ulli Stein’s wines these days?

[Robert_Dentice]

Since first seeing this thread, I have started to write a lengthy informed post on the history of Keller’s price escalation several times. Honestly I just don’t have the energy. I am drinking a 2019 Ulli Stein Blauschiefer that is life affirming. I am guessing with the tariff it is under $25. My recommendation to buy this wine should prove to be of far greater value to readers than a historical analysis of GG’s, Keller, instagram, Austrian wines in the U.S., relative value pricing and on and on. If you buy it and don’t like I will give you your money back. I only wish I could be drinking and discussing this wine with Klaus-Peter Keller.

Who is importing Ulli Stein’s wines these days?

Vom Boden.

[David_Bu3ker]

Ah. I should have remembered that.

[Marshall_Manning]

To be pissed off at being priced out of a wine someone loves is pretty much universal in this passion we call wine enthusiasm. As wise people have been know to say, there is an awful lot of fermented grape juice available on this planet.

I totally agree, Mitch. I’ve always had to play on the value end, but have a number of interesting wines in the cellar despite rarely paying more than $60 for anything. You just have to look for new regions and new producers every few years, but to me that’s part of the fun. I long ago stopped trying to chase things that were someone’s idea of “the best”. I just buy a variety of wines that I enjoy, and if something goes above my comfort level I just stop buying it and find something else. There’s a lot of good wine out there and the incremental difference between “the best” and the excellent is negligible for me, especially with the hassle of the chase. I don’t love the chase, I just love good wine.

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

Since first seeing this thread, I have started to write a lengthy informed post on the history of Keller’s price escalation several times. Honestly I just don’t have the energy. I am drinking a 2019 Ulli Stein Blauschiefer that is life affirming. I am guessing with the tariff it is under $25. My recommendation to buy this wine should prove to be of far greater value to readers than a historical analysis of GG’s, Keller, instagram, Austrian wines in the U.S., relative value pricing and on and on. If you buy it and don’t like I will give you your money back. I only wish I could be drinking and discussing this wine with Klaus-Peter Keller.

Thank you! That sounds perfect to me. Any idea of availability on the west coast?

[Robert_Dentice]

Since first seeing this thread, I have started to write a lengthy informed post on the history of Keller’s price escalation several times. Honestly I just don’t have the energy. I am drinking a 2019 Ulli Stein Blauschiefer that is life affirming. I am guessing with the tariff it is under $25. My recommendation to buy this wine should prove to be of far greater value to readers than a historical analysis of GG’s, Keller, instagram, Austrian wines in the U.S., relative value pricing and on and on. If you buy it and don’t like I will give you your money back. I only wish I could be drinking and discussing this wine with Klaus-Peter Keller.

Thank you! That sounds perfect to me. Any idea of availability on the west coast?

Vom Boden is the importer. Scott Frank handles their wine in Oregon and is a big fan so you should be able to get some.

[Nick_Christie]

Since first seeing this thread, I have started to write a lengthy informed post on the history of Keller’s price escalation several times. Honestly I just don’t have the energy. I am drinking a 2019 Ulli Stein Blauschiefer that is life affirming. I am guessing with the tariff it is under $25. My recommendation to buy this wine should prove to be of far greater value to readers than a historical analysis of GG’s, Keller, instagram, Austrian wines in the U.S., relative value pricing and on and on. If you buy it and don’t like I will give you your money back. I only wish I could be drinking and discussing this wine with Klaus-Peter Keller.

Life is short . Time with Riesling is better spent. I heartily endorse your decision-making.

[CFu]

Since first seeing this thread, I have started to write a lengthy informed post on the history of Keller’s price escalation several times. Honestly I just don’t have the energy. I am drinking a 2019 Ulli Stein Blauschiefer that is life affirming. I am guessing with the tariff it is under $25. My recommendation to buy this wine should prove to be of far greater value to readers than a historical analysis of GG’s, Keller, instagram, Austrian wines in the U.S., relative value pricing and on and on. If you buy it and don’t like I will give you your money back. I only wish I could be drinking and discussing this wine with Klaus-Peter Keller.

Thank you! That sounds perfect to me. Any idea of availability on the west coast?

Most of the major stores in SoCal have the full line up. Really like the wines from Stein

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

Since first seeing this thread, I have started to write a lengthy informed post on the history of Keller’s price escalation several times. Honestly I just don’t have the energy. I am drinking a 2019 Ulli Stein Blauschiefer that is life affirming. I am guessing with the tariff it is under $25. My recommendation to buy this wine should prove to be of far greater value to readers than a historical analysis of GG’s, Keller, instagram, Austrian wines in the U.S., relative value pricing and on and on. If you buy it and don’t like I will give you your money back. I only wish I could be drinking and discussing this wine with Klaus-Peter Keller.

Thank you! That sounds perfect to me. Any idea of availability on the west coast?

Vom Boden is the importer. Scott Frank handles their wine in Oregon and is a big fan so you should be able to get some.

I know Scott, and we deliver the guys at Avalon right next door to him.

[Ethan_A]

Ok fess up, who the heck was 805 at the hdh auction? Won every single Keller lot. If you thought prices were getting silly…

[Mike_C1]

Ok fess up, who the heck was 805 at the hdh auction? Won every single Keller lot. If you thought prices were getting silly…

My guess is Alex Gillette

[Robert_Dentice]

Ok fess up, who the heck was 805 at the hdh auction? Won every single Keller lot. If you thought prices were getting silly…

I was afraid to look. Based on a quick glance those prices are not too bad given what I have seen recently.

[A_Gillette]

Ok fess up, who the heck was 805 at the hdh auction? Won every single Keller lot. If you thought prices were getting silly…

My guess is Alex Gillette

Nope. I was the seller on that shit! Suckers!
A

[Patrick_Taylor]

Just because it Keller used to be undervalued— doesn’t make it overvalued now. As one of the best white wines in the world, it may still be a bargain at current prices.

Not sure how you define “value”.

A number of years ago, as Oregon pricing was pushing upwards, John Paul at Cameron in Oregon published his costs per bottle for his wines. And pointed out that some of the higher price points had little to do with cost of goods.

Along those lines, a number of years ago Ken Evenstad of Domaine Serene wanted to make the first $200 Oregon Pinot Noir. So he did.

[A_Gillette]

Ok fess up, who the heck was 805 at the hdh auction? Won every single Keller lot. If you thought prices were getting silly…

My guess is Alex Gillette

Nope. I was the seller on that shit! Suckers!
A

Kidding of course. Just looked at the auction results. Prices look reasonable to me. Of course, it’s a lot more than I pay. But it’s fair.
A

[Ethan_A]

My guess is Alex Gillette

Nope. I was the seller on that shit! Suckers!
A

Kidding of course. Just looked at the auction results. Prices look reasonable to me. Of course, it’s a lot more than I pay. But it’s fair.
A

I didn’t realize Abts and Morstein were going for 400-500 at auction these days. Yikes!
I was more impressed by the seeming willingness of the buyer to counter every bid within a second.