“Sophisticated tannins”? Do they have good manners? I assume they’re not coarse.
2013 Benjamin Romeo La Cueva del Contador
WA 94
“There is no Contador and none of the other top wines were produced in 2013, only this cuvée and Predicador were bottled from that vintage. So the 2013 La Cueva del Contador got the best grapes they could produce in that challenging year. It is pure Tempranillo fermented in oak vats with indigenous yeasts and matured in new French oak barrels for 18 months. It has a clean, perfumed, subtle nose, very floral and sleek, polished and insinuating. It’s really aromatic and open, with notes of spices (curry, nutmeg), aromatic herbs and wild berries; it turns more and more balsamic with time in the glass. The palate is silky, with an earthy touch, elegant but with personality, with > sophisticated tannins > and good acidity. Balanced and elegant. This is a great wine whose only problem is having a big brother called Contador. Wait, there is no Contador in 2013.” -Luis Gutierrez
I would interpret this to mean that the tannins are not green / underripe and are not excessively assertive despite being noticeable in a powdery, mildly chewy form.
This was a very helpful post. I also like the fine vs course analogy to sandpaper. I’ve often wondered why two different young/highly tannic wines can differ so much. In one the clearing sensation can be pleasant and prime you for the next bite of steak, whereas in another wine the sensation is harsh and unpleasant.
Please note that the appearance of ‘tannins’ will truly depend upon your individual mouth and whether or not you are bitter averse or not. Yep, there certainly are wines that are ‘high’ in objective tannin numbers, but the ‘perception’ of tannin is not equal across all of us.
This is quite apparent when doing tastings. One person who is bitter-averse will find a wine to be overly tannic; the person sitting next to them, tasting the same wine, mind find it too simple and lacking tannins . . .
I hear you, Larry, but still, as with much Barolo, one can recognize that there are serious tannins present and still enjoy them…so, yeah, “overly” tannic can vary greatly, but their presence to some degree doesn’t have to among experienced tasters. (And you’re probably better, no doubt, at evaluating that presence in most cases than I.
Mainly, however, great thread, and in part posting just so I can find it again.
Considering that people have spent their lives studying phenolics and acids I thought Jon s article was a tad short but you know how editors are. A great topic for his third book.
Just like in everything else wine-related, most folks like to ‘simplify’ things, especially when they are speaking to a larger audience.
Tannins are quite complicated and continue to be at the heart of lots of studies around the world. We have learned over the past few decades that micro-oxygenation is a sure fire way to ‘tame’ them and get wines to market faster - and we think we understand the ‘hows’ and ‘whys’.
That said, there are plenty of things in the vineyard we don’t understand - for instance, some varieties (and clones within varieties) tend to ‘hold on’ to their tannins and make them less accessible to be pulled out during fermentation than others. Why? We still don’t understand entirely . . .
Someone asked in another thread about “linear.” I think I know what it means (well defined by acid and not ripe in a jammy way), but I’d be curious how you articulate it.
John
You are getting close to our favorite topic, what crazy things wine merchants and writers put into print.
Linear wine? Is there curvaceous wine?
Pentagonal wine?
Wine writers like to believe that texture comes from terroir but winemakers know how to use technique to modify texture.
I have spent a lot of time researching and thinking about this and I believe texture and finish are the X factors that can push wines from good to excellent. The article did a good job of talking about some of the grape and cellar factors that contribute to the sensation. While you can measure tannin, because of the complex nature of tannin sensory aspects I feel like we are still a long way off from tannin measurements being helpful in guiding fermentation and extraction. I’m also not really into the analytical recipe winemaking thing. Someone recently asked me why I would do 6 weeks maceration instead of reverse osmosis to dial in my wine - I’m chasing texture. A harder topic to elucidate than texture is personality/distinctiveness/soul. Supermarket wine may be able to hit some texture buttons with additives and RS - they may have identical lab analysis as some of the greats - but they are missing the love.
How do you know that extended maceration ‘helps’ with texture? What do you think you’re gaining when doing so? A higher level of tannins? Different tannins? Other bitter compounds?
One of the biggest challenges with winemaking is truly understanding the cause/effect relationship of the steps we take going from grape to finished wine. As part of my MS work, I did look at ‘extended maceration’ ferments vs non-extended maceration ferments. Did total tannins increase with extended maceration? In some case, yes - but in some cases, no. Did overall phenolics increase? Same answer? Did anthocyanins (or color molecules) increase? Sometimes yes and sometimes no.
Apropos of that, I’ve always been intrigued by Burlotto’s Monvigliero Barolo, which is one of the most elegant, feminine Barolos, with very fine tannins (if I can use that term after all the discussion here). It’s the antithesis of the brooding, hard-tannin Barolo that we think of. But it spends 60 days or more on the skins! Traditionalist winemakers generally leave the wine on the skins for only 21-30 days.
There are other factors, to be sure. Burlotto presses the Monvigliero grapes by foot and the vineyard site is quite distinctive (cooled by the Tanaro River, at the outer edge of the appellation). But the texture of the wine is very counterintuitive if you know about the very long maceration.
I guess your research suggests that’s not completely surprising.
Glossy is an interesting word. I think sometimes it signals another “code” word polished. I sometimes take glossy and polished to refer to deliberate wine-making techniques to affect texture/ mouthfeel most notably in red wines.
Those are a pretty good collection of descriptors, though I will disagree slightly with just a few: I use chalky a lot to describe tannins (which might be your powdery), but not minerality. Saline is distinctly its own note, very different from minerality for me. I would be confused by “succulent” acidity, that’s a broader descriptor I might use for the wine in general, though it’s a little fuzzy in my mind. Same with juicy. “textural” has no meaning to me.
I don’t know for certain what techniques in the vineyard and cellar translate into what characteristics in the final wine. I do everything I can that I THINK will make an impact. My opinions are based on tasting wines, reading about winemaking techniques of wines I like, and trial and error. And to further your point about cause and effect, many things give you some positives and some negatives (such as time in the barrel) so it is really a judgment call of what your are aiming for. Moreover, the turn around time is so long, that you won’t find out for a few years.
Specifically about extended maceration. Your questions are valid. Color peaks quickly (~7 days) so I may be sacrificing color. I’m OK with that. I don’t judge wine on color. Line up a Burgundy, Barolo, mass-produced red blend, BDX and CdP and see if you can infer anything about quality based on color. Since you asked I would say quality of tannin is more important than higher level of tannin. Over extraction is a real thing! I have a lot of opinions, and I know that good wines can be made in a lot of ways. I’m not knocking short maceration periods…some good wines are fermented and pressed quickly. I just do what I think is best.
John… I’ve only had Burlotto monvig once (the ‘11). I freakin’ loved it. In addition to long maceration, I think it is whole cluster Nebbiolo. It has a crazy olive thing that is very distinctive. I’ve had a couple other of their Barolo and the pelaverga - fantastic producer.
Thanks for your response - and yep, to each his own. My point has more to do with ‘false information’ on certain techniques like extended maceration. Many feel that it increases overall tannins - and some of the research I’ve seen say the opposite (that the must and wine reach an ‘equilibrium’ and no further extraction takes place).
As far as color goes, post pressing temperatures many be just as important as anything else as it is important to hold on to color created to some extent. But equally important are the types of tannin a developing young wine possess and the quantitative amount of anthocyanins.
I agree that color is not of paramount importance and my wines ‘have what they have’ - I do 100% whole cluster on all my reds, and this is supposed to decrease overall color (not sure that it does) - if I was concerned, I would not be doing that
