Italy recommendations?

Travel, Wine Tourism, and Restaurants Forum
21

I have been a few times with my family, from middle-school age to teenage high school age.
I offer the following:

Don’t try to do too much. We had the most fun at market - learning to speak Italian -conversing. Restaurants were fun too. Generally, Italians are welcoming to children, especially those who are adventurous with food and behave as one should in a restaurant. Too much time in the car or on the train became a burden; it was more enjoyable to be in a place and just enjoy the day.

Roma is wonderful but a bit big for walking with young children. Of course, there are so many great sites but it takes a fair amount of time to get from one place to another. Don’t try to fit too much in in one day.

Venezia is magical. You can see so much in short walks. It remains one of the more memorable cities for my children. A gondola ride at twilight is a highlight. Good food can be found if you look. Bad food at exorbitant prices can be found if you don’t look. Consider tickets to Teatro La Fenice for opera. I think that wold be magical.

Firenze is beautiful and there are many things to see and do. I would think it a perfect place for a visit with your daughter and friend. A walk up Piazza Michelangelo can be fun. Great views of the city. Firenze offers something for everyone. Good food, wine, art, shopping, churches, history and street culture. (I suggest reading Brunelleschi’s Dome by Ross King before you go; It provided me a whole new perspective on the Cathedral of Santa Maria dei Fiore (the Duomo).

Cinque Terre is beautiful but can be crowded with tourists. You are traveling during what could be off-season so your experience may be different. It takes a little bit of time to get there, however; you may prefer spending that time in a city or town rather than on two or more trains and in train stations.

Unless you are there for more than 10 days, I think the Roma - Firenze - Venezia itinerary is good, especially with young children. Perhaps a day excursion from Venezia to Verona or Padova might be worthwhile, or a day trip from Firenze to Siena.
You are traveling before the summer concerts in the Arena in Verona but Verona is worth a visit.

In Venezia, I suggest Trattoria Antica Carbonara for lunch. It is a few blocks from Piazza San Marco.
There are some nice wine bars around the Rialto Fish Market (Pescheria).

Good luck.

22

Thanks very much for the great suggestions!

23

As far as travel time between cities is concerned, Eurostar train from Rome to Florence is about 1 hour and 40 minutes. By car, I had just driven a 12-seat stick-shift van a couple of days ago and, my estimated total driving time ( less stops/detours in Orvieto and surrounds) was 2 hours and 15 minutes via A1. I’ve driven this stretch a few times before and only did so because we like to stop in Lazio/Umbria/Tuscany along the way. But I really prefer train travel, especially since driving out of hellish Rome traffic and into nightmarish one-way tiny streets of Florence can add a little bit of stress,

We are headed to Venice and since we are a little smaller group now, we will be taking the Eurostar and our ticket says a travel time of 2 hours and 10 minutes.

Some restaurant tips in Rome: try Al Pompiere in the Jewish Quarters, Gioia Mia in Pza Barberini area, and Cul de Sac in Pza Navona for your wine bar relaxing needs.
if you decide to stop at Orvieto, which is a quick 40 minute train ride from Rome, you must go to I Sette Consoli for some of the finest Umbrian dishes in a nice but slightly formal setting.

In Florence, I Due G is a great and pretty trattoria in sligha quiet street northeast of SMN train station. Their lamb dishes are frggin’ good. Old reliable Cibreo is still going strong, and we opted for the trattoria this time instead of the restaurant. If the traditional Florentine steak is what you want, reserve in advance at Sostanza, and you will be treated to some terrific porterhouse from the local Chianina cattle while sitting in comfortable communal tables.

For markets, go to Testaccio in Rome and for Florence, the Mercato Centrale and a newly-discovered smaller but much more Locals-only version, San Ambroglio just north of Piazza Santa Croce.

24

Is the Eurostar trip to Venice that you describe from Rome or from Florence?

25

From Florence.

26

If any visitors to Florence want the contact info for the absolute best guide - let me know.
He is an American Ex-pat who was studying art and decided to stay.
He is fantastic for a 1/2 or full day - esp with kids. I have known him for about 15 years. We met him when our kids were in middle and high school and they have never forgotten what they learned.
We have been to Florence many times. I also suggest going to Lucca/Pisa for one day. It is worth it.
While in Lucca - find and visit Enoteca Vanni. Make sure you go down stairs to their cellars.

27

Venice is one of the most hauntingly beautiful places in the world, and is best appreciated in the off season, which runs roughly from mid-November to mid-March. Wake up early and go to the Piazza San Marco by 6am, and you will witness a beauty that will be etched in your memory for all time (all the more if some snow should be falling). Go to the Cantina gia Schiavi (also known as Al Bottegon) in the Dorsoduro district for chichetti and glasses of wine. This is a great way to get a feel for Venetian life, as it is frequented mostly by locals during the off season. Also in the Dorsoduro is Enoteca Ai Artisti, a family owned place that turns out superb food and offers a wide selection of wine by the glass and bottles. I’m afraid it’s been discovered by visitors during the high season, but in the off season, it’s a locals only place.

28

We’re going to stop for one night in Bologna. Any restaurant recommendations for lunch or dinner, not too fancy? We’re staying right near the Piazza Maggiore.

29

Well, it’s probably been almost 10 years since I’ve been there, but loved Cesari

http://www.da-cesari.it/default.asp

Get some current opinions, but I ate there twice in three days I loved it so much. Very reasonably priced at the time.

30

From our 2010 Rome Dining Notes:

Rome – Al Ceppo – Our first night in Rome and our dear local friend wanted our first dinner to be here. Wow, we were pleased with the choice. Warm, elegant, slightly formal yet friendly atmosphere with a surprisingly located open grill in the front room. Our friend dines here often, so perhaps we were treated better than average, but the service seemed quite fine as I looked around the rooms filed with happy and apparently affluent clientele. Dishes were traditional yet prepared in a sophisticated manner and we enjoyed ourselves immensely. Fantastic pastas; in fact, Al Ceppo is the winner of the prestigious and never before awarded “best pasta dish Andrew ever had” award, with an absolutely sublime carbonara made with perfectly prepared eggy tagliatelle (rather than the usual spaghetti) with an amazingly yellow egg yolk, crunchy quanciale, creamy pecorino, a touch of pepper, and topped with white truffles. Decadent? Si. I must tell you, it was insanely good. The stuff dreams are made of, if one dreams of pasta. The other dishes shined as well: delicious puntarelle and porcini; tubular paccheri filled with tuna; perfectly prepared fish and grilled lamb; and the first tiramisu I ever truly enjoyed. Along with this first rate dinner we had a wonderful 2004 Le Pergola Torte. We would definitely return.

Rome – Al Moro – Our second night’s dinner, also chosen by our friend. This is, to my mind, an “old school Roman” place, somewhat hard to find, crowded, and complete with waiters who have been working there for ages. It has been around since 1929 and even has its own unfriendly looking owner, and it seems they place the tourists in their own room (perhaps with the better English-speaking waiters). Regardless, the food is very good, the atmosphere is loud and jovial and bustling with large tables filled with families and smaller tables crowded side-by-side, and the menu is filled with local favorites, including fantastic artichokes (prepared several different ways), delicious fried vegetables, a very good spaghetti alla carbonara, and excellent dishes of oxtail stew and tripe (not together). A fun evening. We might return.

Rome – Nonna Betta – A cleverly named tiny and very friendly Kosher eatery in the Jewish Quarter. We had a very nice little lunch, comprised of artichokes alla Giudia, artichokes baked in cheese, and of course a pizza bianco with artichokes and mushrooms.

Rome – Salumeria Roscioli – Okay, if we lived in Rome, we would eat here … a lot. From what I read, “450 different kinds of cheese, more than 100 different types of cured meat, a wine list of 2200 labels, 20 different homemade breads.” I believe it. Crowded, popular, and an immediate sensory overload of sights and smells, let alone tastes once you are seated and served. This is probably the most expensive deli we’ve been in, but we believe it is worth it. We walked through the shop in front and past the few tables located nearby and headed downstairs to the wine cellar and our table. Here, amongst a staggering collection of Italian and French wine bottles, I had the single greatest plate of cheese in my life, a huge serving of burrata, probably intended for a group to share. And not just any luscious, creamy, delicious burrata, no! This was “Burrata from Andria with Black Pepper from Malesia and semi-dried cherry tomatoes from Pachino,” with some drops of amazing EVOO. It was fantastic, and I am not embarrassed to say I killed it. Roscioli also is famed for its pasta dishes, called some of the finest in Rome. I do not disagree. Here, I had simply fabulous spaghetti alla carbonara, with an egg yolk and guanciale to make you weep; followed by the unanimous winner of “the second greatest pasta in my life” award, tonnarello al sugo di coda vaccinara (a slightly thick, squarish spaghetti with an oxtail ragu). So good, we came back on our final day in Rome for another plate for lunch, along with an insanely good linguine porri e gambero (leeks and shrimp). With our dinner, another 2006 Le Trame Chianti Classico; with lunch a very nice 2009 Conte Zandotti Rumon Malvasia del Lazio. If we return to Rome, we will return, several times. (Related to the famed and wonderful Antico Forno Roscioli bakery down the street and across the Campo dei Fiore.)

Rome – Ristorante “La Taverna degli Amici, a Tormargana” – This, to me, represents the magic of Rome. After we finished our tour of Ancient Rome at the Colosseum, we were walking towards “our neighborhood” (Campo dei Fiore, Piazza Farnese) and through an alleyway, then we entered a small, pretty piazza (Piazza Margana), found ourselves facing a nice looking restaurant with lots of well-dressed folks enjoying lunch outdoors. We looked at the menu and sat down. Mama mia, we were happy we did! We started with salmon crudo and spigola (sea bass) carpaccio, a plate of sautéed porcini, a perfect plate of bombolotti all’amatriciana (that quintessential Roman sauce of tomato, chili pepper, guanciale, and pecorino cheese), followed by an absolutely scrumptious pear tart. We also had a fine Puiatti Pinot Grigio Collio “Ruttars.” (“Save a tree, drink no oak aged wine!”) We would definitely return and I’d love to try dinner there.

Rome – Ristorante l’Arcangelo – Our last dinner in Rome, accompanied by our local friend, was at this highly regarded, small restaurant. It is famed for its perfect ingredients, precise flavors, and elegant dishes including perfect pastas. I had a very good plate of paccheri alla carbonara. We drank a wonderful 2008 Tenuta Terre Nere Etna Rosso. The food here was creative and lovely, but something was “off.” I have read complaints of less than warm service, and that was certainly part of the problem; it just was not inviting and friendly, in fact, it was as if we were intruding into some special club. (There also was a group of small fruit flies buzzing us and our dishes about which the staff seemed to have little concern.) There are many other places in Rome to eat, including many we still have not visited, so we will not return.

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Enjoy! [cheers.gif]
Andrew

31

Some somewhat dated (2005) dining suggestions in Florence and Bologna:

Florence: Dinner at Trattorria Za Za, Piazza del Mercato Centrale, Tel. 055 215411. This small, informal, touristy, noisy place near the San Lorenzo market was recommended to us by a few guidebooks and our hotel’s front desk. One important attribute was that it was open on that rainy Sunday evening. It was quite nice, and the dishes were well presented, simple, and delicious. A “basic” kind of meal, nothing stood out as special, but everything was good. Might return.

Florence: Dinner at Buca Lapi, Via del Trebbio, near Piazza Antinori, Tel. 055 213768. This crowded and quite popular place, which previously was an Antinori wine cellar, had come fairly well recommended but was another disappointment. We had been prepared for a “tourist central” appearance, but we did not expect what we felt was “tourists only” service and cuisine. Indeed, it soon became apparent that the only Italians in the establishment worked there and that no Italian was eating there. We might as well have been eating in New York or San Francisco. Ordinarily, since we live in the U.S., there is nothing wrong with that. However, we were in Florence, and though we also were tourists there, it seemed to us that better, more authentic ethnic or regional meals usually are found where “locals” also come to dine. Our impression proved accurate, as the dishes for the most part seemed tired and uninteresting, and not up to the quality level we had been enjoying, even in less formal restaurants. The Bistecca alla Fiorentina was particularly uninspired. The restaurant also seemed over-priced, considering its atmosphere and quality. We would not return.

Florence: Lunch at Tratorria Mario, Via Rosina, near the San Lorenzo market, Tel. 055 218550. This restaurant, like many we experienced, is mentioned in Carla Capalbo’s book, and her description (“a genuine Florentine gem”) was accurate. It is noisy, bustling, friendly with communal tables, and serves wonderful simple, rustic food. You may have to wait for a place at a table to open up. The daily menu, posted on the walls, is short and simple, and the dishes come quickly after you order from the always smiling and always moving waitresses. The few meat, vegetable, soup, and pasta dishes are very fresh and well prepared and inexpensive. We would return.

Florence: Dinner at Il Cibreo, Via A. Del Verrochio 8R, Tel. 055 2341100. A terrific meal. The evening’s menu was recited to us by a friendly woman who pulled up a chair. It was not a long menu and it consisted of a few choices for each course, all of which sounded great. When I could not decide between two enticing second course choices, she said not to worry, in essence: “choose this one and I’ll make sure you get a taste of that one.” Believe me, much more than a taste arrived later, alongside my choice. Xiaopei had a beautiful porcini first course, followed by one of their famous dishes: “calamari in inzimino,” a deeply colored, richly flavored, somewhat spicy and wholly delicious squid and greens stew. I loved my pigeon, accompanied on the side by the “other” dish, a beautiful piece of veal with a thick sauce from tuna! We enjoyed a very nice Isole e Olena Chianti Classico. The desserts also were terrific. We would return.

Bologna: Dinner at Tratorria (or Da) Tony, Via A. Righi, Tel. 051 232852. Another Emma Dalton selection. This is a tiny, casual, very friendly, virtually all “locals” place, with only a little English to be found. Of course, we ordered and enjoyed the regional specialties, tortellini in brodo and tagliatelle al ragu Bolognese. Such simple dishes, so well crafted. We also enjoyed other dishes, including one I did not know I had ordered but was glad I did – an amazing veal shank – and some lasagna verde, and everything was warm and delicious. Great olive oils, one with an amazing amount of red pepper, and a very old balsamic vinegar, appeared and were enjoyed. Another little gem. Thank you, Emma!

Bologna: Lunch or drinks at Il Calice, Via Clavature, 13/a, tel.: 051 264506. An old, little restaurant/bar that also came from Emma’s suggestions. It was fantastic for cappuccinos and later in the day for cocktails, with great pianini sandwiches and tapas galore. I am not a cappuccino expert, but these were simply wonderful, masterly and lovingly crafted. Good place to soak up local character, near a great walking area (near the two leaning towers).

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Enjoy! [cheers.gif]
Andrew