I’m amazed. So I did what I should have done in the first place. First I looked up vigneron in my very large Random House French English dictionary and found vigneron translated indeed as wine grower. Then I looked up viticulteur and found the same definition. Then I looked up winemaker and found no entry! Then I turned to my Petit Robert and found Vigneron defines one who grows vines and makes wine (with the synonym viticulteur!) and then looked up Viticulteur and found the definition the same as Vigneron (with the synonym vigneron!) Finally, getting suspicious, I looked up winemaker in the OED and found no entry (either for one word or for two). Online, I am told a winemaker is an expert in making wine or a wine grower. And the Miriam Webster, with the same definition, has no usage listed before 2002, which explains why the in print OED has no listing since its last edition was in the 1980s. Clearly, we’ve all been speaking through our hats.
Comes in really handy at work.
“That’s a brilliant idea…”
To answer the question: NO.
I have never met a winemaker who finds that term pejorative. On the other hand, I have met and worked with a number of winemakers who don’t like it when distributors refer to them as “a supplier”. I agree…there’s no romance in that descriptor at all.
When Conan O’Brien took his show to Cuba, he got a translation for a popular expression as “That’s your luggage.” It sounds so awkward, he thought it particularly amusing. But, it’s related to our concept of “emotional baggage”. Using the right synonym wouldn’t have sounded so foreign of a concept. It’s like a brilliant, precise version of our vague “That’s your problem” that hits home with an implied “Get over yourself.”
I think UN translators have to have deep cultural understanding of the languages they’re translating, as well as skills I can hardly fathom. But, I’m sure the speakers/speech writers are also quite knowledgeable about what won’t translate well, so are careful on that side. As diplomats, they are communicating explicitly and implicitly in a very calculated manner.
I’ve always thought “winegrower” worked best.
Which means one time out of ten you’ll be faced with someone who came across the term “vigneron” and wanted a definition, but couldn’t grasp the implications carried by the word “winegrower”.
Richard Smart once related a story about visiting a South American wine region and being taught the word for “cane” (ie., cane v. spur pruning).
He moved to a wine region in a neighboring country (something like Chile to Argentina or vice versa), and dived right in, telling the group assembled for a vineyard workshop how the vineyard they were in was showing excessive vigor with canes that were way too big and long. He thought he might show off his newfound language skills, so he pointed to the big, long canes and used the term he had learned in the previous country.
The whole group erupted into laughter.
When things calmed down his translator informed him that term Smart had used didn’t mean cane, but was slang for the male sexual organ.
I think to this day Richard wonders if he fell afoul of regional linguistic variations, or if a whole bunch of South American viticulturists were pranking him.
Bruce - My restaurant years taught me the Spanish names for every single food item and animal doubles as a sexual term. I’m sure there are plenty of region differences. These guys were all from Michoacan. So, the direct translation for that sexual slang term being used for “cane” would likely be bizarre, as it’s two steps of separation.
One guy taught me a phrase (in one ear and out the other) and what it meant in English, which is how he’d say it. It sounded totally innocuous and I doubt anyone could guess what it meant. But, if I said it he’d go into hysterics. Fun times.
Hi,
As opposed to one comment I read above, the French word “vigneron” refers to someone who not only makes the wine, but is responsible for growing the grapes.
I have also encountered this French word in Australia.
You sometimes hear “winemaker” used in France, but more often “vinificateur”.
I cannot see why there would be any negative connotation to any of these words.
Best regards,
Alex R.
Vitificateur is a new one on me. It doesn’t appear in either my Random House French English or my Petit Robert. Nor does it show up in either the Larousse online or the Robert online. It sounds like a new concoction to escape the Franglais of using winemaker in French. Baladeur a cassettes anyone?