Is Pinot Noir overrated?

[David_Bu3ker]

Probably my most transcendent wine moment was with a Bordeaux - 1970 Petrus.

[Charlie_Carnes]

He knoweth not what he doth speaketh! Seriously, I need to bring some sure things over next time we hang.The 1995 Leroy Clos Vougeot disappointed me as well last October. I will bring back-ups next time.

I believe when Pinot Noir hits its high points it is better than any other wine!

[Lee_Short]

@Ben_M_a_n_d_l_e_r

I think Pinot Noir is overrated. I think that some of the very finest wines in the world are made from Pinot Noir. I think that most of the best sub-$50 wines in the world (I.e. almost all of them) are not Pinot Noir.

I’ll agree that in the under $50 value category, most of the wines are not Pinot Noir. But I’ve never had a problem finding sub-$50 pinots that I think are thrilling.

@Ben_M_a_n_d_l_e_r

If someone offered me a Pinot Noir and a similarly priced Aglianico or Cabernet Franc, I’d probably never choose the Pinot.

Have you tried the Vincent Ribbon Ridge Pinot? Or any of the Briceland pinots? Or the Maresh Dundee Hills, or or or ?

I think all these wines are comparable value to Baudry Grezeaux or Raffault Picasses or any Aglianico I’ve had (though admittedly I don’t drink much Aglianico).

It sounds like you either haven’t really dug into the value Pinot market, or you just don’t like it as well as you like some other grapes. Neither of those are the same as Pinot lacking value in the under $50 price category. Also not the same as Pinot being overrated.

[Andrew_K]

@David_Bu3ker

or at least I did when we got together before COVID

Huh? AFAIK COVID, in the sense of shutting down events, has been over for quite a long while.

[Andrew_K]

@ChrisJames

my PN is entirely from Oregon. We drink 1-2 bottles a week of wines in the $25-75 range

Curious where you find good value in $75 Oregon Pinot?

[Chris_Seiber]

@B_Beachy

I’d say that most non-French pinot noir I’ve had is also overrated (at all price points)

[Ben_M_a_n_d_l_e_r]

@Lee_Short

Have you tried the Vincent Ribbon Ridge Pinot? Or any of the Briceland pinots? Or the Maresh Dundee Hills, or or or ?

I think all these wines are comparable value to Baudry Grezeaux or Raffault Picasses or any Aglianico I’ve had (though admittedly I don’t drink much Aglianico).

It sounds like you either haven’t really dug into the value Pinot market, or you just don’t like it as well as you like some other grapes. Neither of those are the same as Pinot lacking value in the under $50 price category. Also not the same as Pinot being overrated.

I get this all the time from Pinotphiles - people think that if you aren’t obsessed with Pinot it’s just lack of experience. But I’ve tasted hundreds of different Pinots from across the world at a wide range of price points (probably half to two thirds of which were under $50), I spent half a year working at a major Pinot Noir producer in Sonoma County, and Pinot Noir is the 4th most-represented variety in my cellar.

Don’t get me wrong, I like Pinot Noir. I drink Pinot Noir. I buy Pinot Noir. I’ve had Pinot Noirs that have knocked my socks off. I just also happen to think it’s overrated. Part of that is just how hard you do have to dig to find good values. Some of the most transcendent, wonderful wines I’ve had have been in the $30-60 range, but very few of those have been Pinots. If someone offered me a $40 Pinot and a $40 Aglianico, I’d for sure choose the Aglianico because the chances that I’ll have a really interesting, delicious experience are higher. The $40 Pinot could be great but, in my experience, it’s more likely that it’ll be a ho-hum underwhelming nice-enough - overpriced - drink.

It’s true that I just don’t like Pinot Noir as much as I like some other grapes. That’s basically my point: that I don’t think Pinot is as good as some people make it out to be. And I wouldn’t care if people didn’t get so weird and pretentious and exclusive about it all. But there’s something about Pinotphiles - they just can’t let it go.

[Lee_Short]

@Ben_M_a_n_d_l_e_r

I get this all the time from Pinotphiles - people think that if you aren’t obsessed with Pinot it’s just lack of experience.

This, of course, is a complete and intentional misreading of what I said. Gonna leave it at that – anyone who cares can go see for themselves.

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

@Lee_Short

@Ben_M_a_n_d_l_e_r

I get this all the time from Pinotphiles - people think that if you aren’t obsessed with Pinot it’s just lack of experience.

This, of course, is a complete and intentional misreading of what I said. Gonna leave it at that – anyone who cares can go see for themselves.

Lee, but you said, [quote=“Lee_Short, post:63, topic:289756”]
Have you tried the Vincent Ribbon Ridge Pinot? Or any of the Briceland pinots? Or the Maresh Dundee Hills, or or or ?
…

It sounds like you either haven’t really dug into the value Pinot market, or you just don’t like it as well as you like some other grapes.
[/quote]
Sorry, Lee, but Ben’s takeaway from your post is pretty reasonable, imo, and I assure you I have zero reason/desire to “intentionally misread” what you said.

“Overrated,” as used in this context, is subjective. To the extent anyone is arguing against anyone’s opinion here, I find that really odd.

[Jono_Le_feuvre]

Superbly expressed. One needs to remove the binary nature of the debate (which was perhaps set up by the poor title of the post). Pinot can be great, but the reputation attributed to certain Pinots has resulted in the category as a whole becoming hyped beyond perhaps what is… reasonable?

Then again, "reasonable” is a relative term.

[David_Bu3ker]

Not when you have folks dealing with compromised immune systems.

[B_Beachy]

I’m admittedly inexperienced and happy to be proven wrong. I’m just unwilling to spend a lot of money to disprove my consistently underwhelming and not-my-preference experiences with most pinot noirs of the world.

[ChrisJames]

@Andrew_K

Curious where you find good value in $75 Oregon Pinot?

I happily buy Kelley Fox’s SVD every year. They are $75 list price. Goodfellow Heritage bottlings and certain Patricia Green are also around that price and are also annual purchases. In the past I would have included Cameron Clos Electrique, Arterberry Maresh, Walter Scott, and The Eyrie, but I am buying less these days.

[Andrew_K]

Just curious what one would still be waiting for at this point? Is there some special booster for immune compromised individuals that’s on the horizon? Or do they think COVID will be eradicated at some point? Or are they just going to stay isolated forever? I understand there’s still a risk even with vaccines and boosters, but there’s risks all around our lives. Just trying to understand the thought process.

[David_Bu3ker]

Not everyone is so at ease with things as you are. Maybe it’s not rational, but it is what it is, and no amount of poking at it changes things.

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

@Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m

@Daniele_Bevs

I’ve never seen a wine enthusiast being very keen on, let’s say, Aglianico. Or Cab Franc.

Ohhh, there’s a very healthy contingent of Cab. Franc lovers on this board. I am one of them. I’m also part of the small, but very enthusiastic, group on this board who loves sherry (tasted a couple different ones last night, actually).

As to your question: I think for some people, there is a degree of mentor influence. As well as some degree of “wine community” influence. There is a saying among wine geeks: All Roads Lead To Champagne. With social media being what it is these days, there is also some appeal to some folks to be flashing their Burg. bottles all over the place because that gets attention and, in many circles, is “cool.” Now, to be clear, many folks prefer Pinot Noir solely because it’s their favorite.

FIFY…but Pinot Noir is still the red grape involved.

[David_Bu3ker]

Or Meunier…

[M_Porter]

Definitely not overrated, but I can understand the sentiment if you look at pinot across all quality ranges.

Cheap pinot is possibly my least favorite red to drink. I’m talking about sub-$20 grocery store level. At the same time I find many cabs at that price point to be drinkable. When you start getting into high-quality california and oregon pinot noir, and then into burgundy, the wine is magical. I would put pinot noir and nebbiolo up as my two favorite unblended red grapes (sangiovese a close third).

I think its similar to other high end consumables. If I’m at an outback steakhouse and the choice is between lobster and shrimp, I’m going with the shrimp. If I’m at Al Biernat’s I’m going with the lobster.

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

What’s that?

[Al_Osterheld]

Meunier is a mutated Pinot Noir, a so called chimera because most of the cells in the plant are indistinguishable from Pinot Noir, but an epidermal layer is different.

-Al