Is Parker a(

[Ian_Fitzsimmons]

With due respect, why are we talking about Parker again at all, bashing or not.

[Keith_Levenberg]

@Ian Dorin

It’s not that he bashed it, I just find it unbelievably difficult to believe that 95 Coche Corton is at the tail end of it’s better days (which is what he is implying). I’m not the biggest Coche drinker in the world by any means, but I think most Burg nuts would say this wine may just be entering it’s drinking window, as opposed to leaving it. My reason for bringing this up was it seems like he is really pushing that sooner drinking window.

But this isn’t anything new for him or specific to Coche. He’s been saying for decades that even the best Burgundies should be drunk on the young side. It’s a little hard to have a discussion about this since it doesn’t seem anyone on this thread, me included, has both (1) had this wine and (2) had it recently enough to be able to opine on its current condition. But if we’re just talking about grand cru white Burgundy in general (and setting aside the premox issue), 15 years after the vintage isn’t a crazy drinking zone to recommend. True, they shouldn’t be falling off a cliff at that point, but I think it’s a perfectly defensible position to prefer them at that age rather than any older. After all, the best white Burgundy I’ve ever had was a 1993 (Dubreuil Fontaine) Corton-Charlemagne… about 2 years ago. I went through 4 bottles around then and I don’t regret for a minute not cellaring them any longer.

[Diane_Elam]

As others are saying, I think this is about ep leaning toward primary characteristics, especially in white wines and champagne. while i admit to enjoying the freshness of young whites, the wines to which parker is referring are indeed more complex and for me much more enjoyable as they grow older; the mystifying bit here is that indeed both the 82 krug and the 95 coche are probably at the beginning, not the end, of showing their best. again, i can’t be upset b/c it just means maybe i can drink these gorgeous wines more frequently if parker followers unload them at a discount. when parker speaks, some people listen, and at the very least this has led to an interesting discussion about older white grand cru burgs and bubbles.

[Ian_Dorin]

@Diane Elam

…i can’t be upset b/c it just means maybe i can drink these gorgeous wines more frequently if parker followers unload them at a discount. when parker speaks, some people listen, and at the very least this has led to an interesting discussion about older white grand cru burgs and bubbles.

Umm, once they call Acker, HDH, Zachy’s, etc…they will get plenty for return on their investment (I say this lovingly, as I can only WISH you were dead on!)

@Keith Levenberg

has both (1) had this wine and (2) had it recently enough to be able to opine on its current condition.

Calling one of the recent group that went to Beaver Creek. At least one of them could probably sound off!!!

[Ray.Tuppa_sch]

Very few people who have 95 Coche-Dury Corton Charlemagne in their cellar listen to what RP has to say about white burgundy and even less who own 82 Krug listen to him about Champagne.

@Diane Elam

again, i can’t be upset b/c it just means maybe i can drink these gorgeous wines more frequently if parker followers unload them at a discount. when parker speaks, some people listen, and at the very least this has led to an interesting discussion about older white grand cru burgs and bubbles.

[Ray.Tuppa_sch]

Ian,

While I’m not the person you had in mind I’ve had the wine twice in the past 18 or so months. And while it’s definitely not in any risk of falling off a cliff I can see what RP means for RP’s palate. The wine has reached a point where it is just starting to evolve into a “mature” white burg and not just a great young white burg. So, clearly this is the point in wines like this that RP finds most attractive. He otherwise gives it a great review so I can respect his personal preference.

Additionally, he hedges a bit in his review of '82 Krug by saying he was in the distinct minority and he at least follows his score of 87 (that is my biggest problem with his review of this wine) with “?”. Also, we don’t know if he had a proper example of this bottle (frankly he probably doesn’t know since he, to my knowledge, drinks older Krug and Champagne in general so infrequently) so that may account for his review too.

While I have a problem understanding why RP drinks young mags of CdP with sushi I don’t have as much of a problem with these two reviews. After all, as much as I love mature wines, I can’t seem to acquire a taste for German Rieslings with three or four or seven decades of age on them while others seem to think these wines are at their most expressive at those ages.

@Ian Dorin

@Keith Levenberg

has both (1) had this wine and (2) had it recently enough to be able to opine on its current condition.

Calling one of the recent group that went to Beaver Creek. At least one of them could probably sound off!!!

[Ian_Dorin]

@Ray.Tuppatsch

While I’m not the person you had in mind

Says who? Just didn’t want to alienate any of the other guys in the group since I know they are posting more frequently

Good points, and great remark about CDP and Sushi. I never got that myself!

[Ray.Tuppa_sch]

Willing to submit to a lie detector test?

@Ian Dorin

@Ray.Tuppatsch

While I’m not the person you had in mind

Says who? Just didn’t want to alienate any of the other guys in the group since I know they are posting more frequently

[Diane_Elam]

@ ian and ray: you are probably both right but a girl can dream. bashing by parker did tank prices on 90 latour, though.

my experiences with these wines are not frequent but memorable. had the coche about a year ago, which was not headed off a cliff for my palate, the 82 krug a couple of years ago, and it seemed really spot on. there are certainly others out there who have much more knowledge of these wines’ trajectories than i do. at some point, though, i think we gravitate to styles and ages of wines in individual ways, and i think that’s cool. i love old bordeaux long past when others have found it has lost its charms, while riesling is always an intellectual exercise for me – my loss other’s gains i suppose. the thing about parker is that he does move markets, like it or not, and the question is to what extent.

and red cdp and sushi, i never got that either. thanks for reminding me. kind of creates a gag reflex. 2 things i like but not on the same table at the same time.