An example of producers currently using new oak prominently in Chablis would have been welcome.
This is my take as well - wines raised in neutral oak seem to me to have a more pleasing texture than those raised entirely in stainless.
When I visited Raveneau he made a point of showing us his 205 (195 l?)liter barrels that were made specially for him so they would fit into the cellar. I don’t think Chablis is new barrel heaven, but there are lots of folks there who buy new barrels and plenty more who use previously-owned barrels from the Cote d Or.
In the Cote de Beaune the percentage of new barrels varies but I cannot think of a famous white there not aged in oak. As one moves south to the Maconnais one enters the land of concrete and stainless steel ageing, but even there we see people like Olivier Merlin and D Lafon using oak casks.
I think the use of oak plays a very important role in the character of the truly great Chardonnays. I suspect, having had tank raised Chardonnay, it is well suited to being paired with oak flavors. The best are the result of a mastered use of the ingredient.
Even the neutral barrels introduce subtle notes as well as texture…chassin included.
Out of tank aligoté is as interesting as Chardonnay. I’ve always assumed Chardonnay became more famous because it pairs so naturally with oak and the results of the two are so gourmand.
I think so, John. And…with oak it’s not the “new” vs. “old” as much as the “toast” element. I think Dauvissat keeps his barrels relatively new…say not more than 3 vintages, but I doubt there is much, if any, toast involved. Old oak is difficult to keep hygenic, among other things, and it loses its porosity a bit. But, it’s the toast that imparts the flavor we think of as “oaky” and the more toasty barrels as a prcentage of any cuvee, the more oak influence. (Hence Dominique Laurent’s claim to fame…which he probably regrets.)
I love Raveneau
I love L Michel
I have not been as crazy about the Brocard Les Clos since the oak has intruded
The Chablisien regimen from the producers I view as reference standard doesn’t include new oak or high toast. I love the wines and think the wood they do use adds dimension. I’m with Kevin H. on the point that all of the profound Chardonnay experiences I’ve had have been from wines that had some wood somewhere in their elevage. When I have come across a Chablis with the new barrel treatment, I’ve sometimes enjoyed them, but rarely have I thought “that’s very Chablis”. The traditionalist in me supports the notion that the best expressions of the region have been arrived at practically from experience of generations, so I trust that the formula is pretty good from the properties we universally admire.
Cheers,
fred
Interestingly, there is no “agreement” on what the traditional elevage of Chablis is: wood or steel or fiberglass or big old wood. Everyone was arguing about that in the mid-90s.
If you want to really understand the softening effect of “some wood” on Chablis, spend a few days in a row tasting there. The places that use none become really really difficult to taste. Their acidiites, whether malic or lactic…make the wines really almost-impossible to appreciate.
“High toast” has never been part of the Chablis experience. It is a relatively recent phenomenon even in the Cote de Beaune. (“New oak” is a meaningless term, IMO, unless it’s a synomym for “high toast”; new oak is just that: no toast and little imparating of flavors.)
Barrels don’t go truly “neutral” (imparting no oak flavor whatsoever) until they’ve been used quite a few times, despite what a lot of wine marketing BS would have us believe. I think most producers in Chablis are changing out barrels regularly (I’m sure partially due to sanitation issues as previously mentioned), and even if they don’t use a lot of new oak, there’s almost always a bit of oak flavor in their GC’s and usually even their PC’s. I find it well integrated always (not just with time) for some producers, so I don’t think that’s always an issue just because there’s a little bit of oak flavor in the wine. I agree that there are many factors at play, including level of toast, but it’s safe to say that it is typical for GC Chablis to show some oak influence beyond simple interaction with oxygen.
I don’t like the flavor of new wood, but I love Raveneau, particularly after a few vintages.
The use of larger wood in white wine production is really interesting, I was talking to my Friuli producer about this idea just yesterday.
Thank you all for your informative responses to my initial query. Scott Brunson, your brief remark was helpful. I may seek out some L Michel Chablis wines to try. (And Lee Short first brought up the name Louis Michel.)
I know there’s a producer (maybe two) that produces a regular les clos, and then a special cuvee of les clos that has a lot of new oak. Forgotten who it is, but the special cuvee in my opinion is never as good.
It’s C. Moreau clos des Hospices. Not to bad mouth it, because I like the estate, but I almost always prefer the regular clos bottling.
I agree with Scott Brunson. There is more than one way to skin a cat.
As I understand it, wine people in Chablis, Pouilly s Loire, Sancerre etc used oak until the mid 50s or so. This is what Didier Dagueneau told me anyway.
Then tanks came in because they were easier to clean. Many of these barrels were very old and quite funky. Tanks sometimes led to unpleasant reductive flavors. It was then called terroir. Barrels made a comeback in these areas in the 80s. That terroir went away and another one arrived.
Oliver makes a good point, that larger barrels (500 liter) can work wonders in appellations like this.
What is not widely understood is the relationship between air drying of staves and the manifestation of toasty character in a wine. For a subtle wine where you don’t want the oak to intrude, proper stave seasoning is essential.
Pinson also does this
Samuel Billaud Chablis Montée de Tonnerre:
80% alcoholic and malolactic fermentation in small thermo regulated stainless steel tanks and 20% in half-cask. And it is razorsharp and a real pleasuer to drink even now (the 2010)
What’s funny about this is that the traditional feuillette chablisienne (114 to 136 liters) is only about half a typical Burgundy barrel, and it’s still in use today (notably at Dauvissat, for example). So it looks like smaller containers work fine too!
Vincent once explained that he use the smaller barrels for the “more mineral” crus. I assumed that he likes the smaller barrels because of the increased oxygenation that they would provide. While I do not like overt oak flavors (though I tolerate it in young Raveneau) I think oak barrels are necessary to make truly great Chablis.
For anyone that isn’t already aware & wants to do a comparison using somewhat close to apples to apples - Bernard Defaix makes 1er Lechet as both a normal inox chablis, & a V.V. that is in mature oak.
Both are delicious.
L. Michel GCs have a very good reputation. At PC level, don’t overlook Picq, also mentioned above, also reasonably-priced.