the issue with Burgs and backfilling is that a lot of focus have been put on vineyard management… also quite a bit of ‘new era’ of wine makers (kids taking over)…
i.e. u can just go backfill 2008 arnoux lachoux thinking it’s the crazy price 2019 arnoux lachoux with 10+ years of age!
That’s why it’s so important to be a super-geek when it comes to Burgundy haha. Pre-2014 Duroche is another one to watch out for.
Magnums of 2008 Cristal 20% below release pricing on winebid.com this week.
Cayuse is widely available in the $65-$75 range, these used to be difficult to find and seem to be showing up in retail more & more.
12 months ago Raveneau was $600-$799 for the 1ers now they’re high $400s & $500s and I’ve gotten multiple emails from multiple retailers about them.
Giacosa Barolo seems low at this time in multiple places online
Clos Rougeard is actually for sale online now…not so 1-2 years ago
more and more wines that were allocated or “back room” wines that you had to ask about seem to be making their way to the shelves on the store.
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Looks like a tech specific layoff based on the article, although ironically tech rebounded a fair amount over the last quarter, at least as far as market cap is concerned.
Those firms employ roughly 1.5m employees globally and probably 400K in the US alone. Definitely not trying to diminish the impact to whoever was impacted by the layoffs, but a 9K employee reduction is a mild restructuring for the size of those firms.
I’d be more concerned if they had general layoffs to lean the business out because overall revenue is down, etc. 2008/09 is an example, although an extreme one.
The most interesting thing I’ve noticed in general is that consumer sentiment / public perspective seems to be inverse to market data. US GDP is up ~6% in 2023, inflation slowed, US markets hit an all time high, but folks still feel a sense of unease. In the north east, I know many millennials and younger generations that are struggle with the cost of housing due to inventory issues and interests rates. Although I wonder how much of an impact that has on the wine markets since there’s probably lower percentages of wine buyers in that demographic.
Interesting stuff nonetheless.
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What price is that? There’s a lot of different release prices depending on where.
Here’s a great Summary of the Burgundy market from Bill Nanson. “The Great Burgundy Fire Sale”
Well worth a read.
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There’s a lot of surplus wine around. People strategize how or if they move that, but dont want to degrade their market price bowing it out through regular channels. So, it’s going to be select individual wines going for a fraction of the regular price.
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Anecdotally, I have been selling off some higher end Burgs (DRC RC, Tache, RSV, GE, Roumier BM and les Am, Mugnier Musigny, Rousseau, etc) over the last year to pay for a large home remodel I am in. My lots on K+L hammered at on average 15-20% lower last month than I got about a year ago on the same bottles. Rayas down 25%. Piedmont less grim but still off a decent amount.
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Yes I have a few surplus high value wines in the restaurant that I enquired about auctioning and retreated when i received the estimates.
Is it possible to get a copy of that list? I’m into Bordeaux for the first time ever, and it’s info overload.
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It’s pre 2009 when Pierre fully takes over; 2013 Duroche is great, for example.
Yes, but half of ridiculous is ridiculous.
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I think that’s very true. Generational shifts have always been an issue in Burgundy - most domaines are small enough that a new winemaker can have a relatively drastic effect - like Charles at Arnoux-Lachaux. And not always for the better - plenty of post 1996 Pousse d’Or is easily available.
And on a broader note, I think overall quality in Burgundy has never been higher than it is today. Backfilling 2000s (let alone the 90s!) is such a fraught experience; tough vintages, questionable storage, wines sold multiple times at auction, less investment in the cellars, etc. And, of course, premox for whites. So while I occasionally buy at auction, my hit rate on current releases is much better, so I’m not sure how much of a value play it really is.
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Ferriere*
D’Issan
Langoa Barton*
Lagrange
Tronquoy Lalande*
Sociando Mallet
Gruard Larose
Duhart Milon
Durfort Vivens*
Domaine de Chevalier
Clos d Clocher 2016 is interesting
2019 Haut Bages Liberal
Cantemerle
Cantenac Brown
La Lagune
2016 Fonbadet
D’Armailhac
Clerc Milon
De Fieuzal
I bought a lot of these, those with asterisk, I bought full cases. Tronquoy Lalande, I bought full cases in each vintage.
I would have other recommendations in the $100+ category. Unreal to me that we can buy so many Classified Growth Bordeaux for $50 or so.
And don’t forget 2014, 2012 and 2011 (Pomerol). Still great stuff in the marketplace priced at what I considered to be extremely reasonable levels. I just grabbed more 2011 Trotanoy and will likely grab more 2011 VCC. Both slay in 2011.
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My mistake it was actually 2013 specifically. Pierre cites 2013 as the vintage that was the turning point for him as a vigneron stating that he was mostly just doing it for rock climbing before that. He discusses it in this tasting with Jasper Morris at 2:25.
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I have long felt that the Burgundy market has been skewed by speculation. Don’t get me wrong, there have always been speculators, but lately it seems to have taken up a much greater percentage than before. Most of my information is anecdotal, but the merchants in the UK speak of investors who have seen huge increases over the last few years, entering the market in great numbers, and are now looking to break even.
In the end though, somebody has to decide they are going to open the bottle, and only the very wealthy will open a $3k bottle of Rousseau or $20k DRC regularly.
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I do not think it’s particularly driven by speculation Mark. There are a lot of these wines being opened in various cities around the world, there are not that many of them made and they’re not very easy to purchase in bulk at below market prices for investment.
Unless by “investors” people mean consumers who take allocations hoping to resell some of the wines in the future, which is not different than Bordeaux consumers since time immemorial.
Pierre told me he likes his 2013s a lot. In a big vertical of his wines a couple years ago the change around 2010 was very apparent. The 2010 Beze is a great wine.
I don’t think there is any question that there is speculation, and it is skewing the market. Some of it private, from investors (not consumers by definition) buying at low Wine Searcher, so with no insider connections, but also there are a number of wine funds which have have sprung up lately, and which may or may not have insider connections depending who is running them.
In one case I know of, there was a purchase of 50 cases of Roumier, DRC, Leroy etc, and the wines were immediately put on consignment waiting for the right price to hit. I also know that some of the wine purchased in Europe has never delivered and probably and will re-enter the market, if it has not already done so.
Yes Bordeaux buyers have been doing this from time immemorial, but Burgundy has much less wine, so small changes in the number or type of buyers, will have far more impact.
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No full case purchase for Cantemerle!? What gives.