Is now the time to be stocking your cellar as deeply as you can?

Rayas is also “affordable” now, around $1k on secondary market for recent vintages. For a hot second (the first half of '22), they were hammering >$2k / bottle

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Best I’m seeing for DV for me in NJ is either Saratoga wine at 70$ long term pre arrival or Alferts favorite b21 at 75$. Probably would be stuck with b21 since I at least know it will ship during favorable weather. Will also need to fill an entire case.

Internet wines is reliable from feedback I’ve received from other Berserkers. I’ve also sent wine to my in laws to New Hampshire and those orders were fine and as expected.

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They also operate a local store here with 2-3 locations. I’ve never ordered from them for shipment, but have never had a problem ordering from them for local pickup, including the aforementioned Ferriere at $30. Since it was pick-up, my six-pack even came in a sealed OWC.


Thank you for the examples. Will be curious to see where this all shakes out with the plentiful ‘22s.

In with ya, brotha! Dove back for more!

I have successfully ordered and received shipment from Internet Wine & Spirits

Most of my recent 2019 and 2016 buys have been from that retailer, no issues at all, and as inexpensive as you will find. Not sure how they do this! The Ferrriere and Haut Bages Liberal both at $30!!!

I also bought that Tronquoy Lalande from K&L. The 6-packs were dirt cheap! I bought a lot of 2016.

Nobody has tomorrow’s newspaper today. There is not one person who knows what is going to happen. Just like equities, you can never time the market. Every investor who bought ETFS or securities with major companies has made money over time.

That being said, the best time to buy wine is when you have extra, disposable income. You might not have that money tomorrow. Next, only buy wines priced at what you are comfortable drinking them at. Your wines might become more expensive in the future. Or they could dip in price. But, so what? You paid a price you could afford, so why worry?

That is advice for drinkers. For investors, it is different. I have no problem with speculators. If that is where you want to put your money, fine.

If I was an investor, I would be much more careful. Perhaps OWC of wines Parker rated 100 Pts. Petrus, Le Pin, Lafleur are solid. A few others in Burgundy, Rhone, Italy, as well. Over time, the best of everything has a good chance of appreciating. But, speculating has risks. Pleasure does not.


Have you checked out any of the bottles? No signs of poor storage or anything (not just seepage, but any stain past the end of the cork)? I’m usually in the “if it’s too good to be true it probably isn’t” mold and a great deal on a cooked or otherwise compromised wine isn’t a deal. But if the wines are in good shape, those are great deals!

As Dave mentioned upthread, this is a retailer based in STL with four stores here and one on the IL side. They have large stores. I assume they just bought a ton of recent vintage BDX, esp. 2019. I have bought 2019 BDX from them recently. Bottles are pristine and sound. They were pouring others in-store last weekend and everything was sound. Many other area Berserkers have been loading up with them and report nothing but success.


I think the idea of speculators “skewing the market” creates a false dichotomy which suggests that there is a true market. The wine is priced at what it will sell and the wines are being drunk. There are people in New York (I am very much not among them) who go through quite a bit of DRC every year, let alone plenty of other things that have appreciated in value.

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Everything I have received has been clean as a whistle

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Just bought '19 Cantermerle today for $29.

Are '19s not selling?

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There is of course a market, just not an efficient one where everybody would have almost equal access to buy and sell.

And although there are still drinkers, hopefully they are not drinking DRC etc with less than a couple of years of bottle age. From what I hear, those are the wines that seems to attract the investor.

I think some of the 19s are drinking very well, as are a lot of recent vintage stuff like corton and petit monts. 19 la tache was good in a young way. Obviously GE, RC, and riche would benefit from a lot of time in cellar.

No market is fully efficient; given that bottles of fine wine are not really fungible, it can’t be. Nor would that provide a “real price”; such a thing isn’t possible in illiquid and shallow markets.

Lots of young DRC drunk.

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I’m guessing that the markets are just flooded with so many really good vintages.


Absolute efficiency of course doesn’t exist, but if you compare Bordeaux to Burgundy, Burgundy appears to be far less efficient.

Sure, but if a lot of Bordeaux estates had productions similar to Le Pin (and le Pin made 7 different cuvées) it would also be a lot less efficient. Bordeaux is a much more homogenized and liquid market than Burgundy, which is why it’s more efficient. That is also why it’s what investment funds primarily hold.