Is "Never drink a Bordeaux that is less than 20 years old" just a silly idea.

WINE TALK
21

The problems begin with the word better. What is better? The wines will be different. If you prefer fully integrated tannins and secondary nuances than many wines are better. If you like power and fruit its better to drink the wines earlier. The really good Crus Bourgeoise like Sociando Mallet, Poujeaux etc. are certainly not over the hill after 20 years when well stored. And wines like Gloria, Meyney, Phelan Segur are not different to Grands Crus IMO.

22

Which 2000 Cru Bourgeois?

Makes a big difference.

Bordeaux is a region with a huge number of wineries. Generalizations like this point to a very small group of wines.

Let’s not even get to the fact that there are people on Cellar Tracker who call wines dead that are barely out of their infancy.

23

Yes, cats don’t like wine. neener

24

What about fatcats? [snort.gif]

25

That’s you! #richretiree

26

And, I like wine!!! [thankyou.gif] [thankyou.gif]

I do realize that I violated my own rule in my post. Sort of like the way Captain Kirk, Spock and Harry Mudd overwhelmed computers in I Mudd. Spock: Everything Harry Mudd says is a lie. Harry Mudd: I am lying.

27

Norman, Norman…coordinate…

28

Far too many Romulan Ale drinkers here, methinks Captain.

For once, albeit with the caveats others have mentioned, I actually agree with Jeff Leve. Gadzooks! Of course there are CBs which drink well and improve after 20 years, but most of them are not really CBs (ie they are the better, more expensive non CCs like Poujeaux, Potensac, SM or Meyney), but otherwise the fun with CBs is that you do not need to wait so long, IMHO.

29

I think it is largely dependent on the person and what they want in a wine. I’ve had Bordeaux from the 60’s that tasted young and fresher than an '82 when they were tasted side by side. I’ve got a bottle from 1990 that’s not ready to open yet…but I’ve got bottles from 2000 and 2005 that I wouldn’t mind opening if I was craving something younger. In general I would say that younger Bordeaux can be enjoyable…but I’ve had more older bottles are unforgettable.

30

I believe this statement- and don’t generally enjoy young Bordeaux. In my Bordeaux group the first check in is at 20 years unless we are doing a specific vertical.

I did taste the 2010 Angelus at a dinner with the brand rep and thought it was fantastic in a cali-cab sort of way.

31

Simply it depends!

There are a lot of minor Cru Bourgeois that are fine (in a good vintage) between 10 and 15 years … not likely to get better afterwards …
but others - I just name Sociando-Mallet, Potensac, Phelan-Segur, Chasse-Spleen, Meney, Poujeaux … - that are still excellent after 25+ years,
and not to speak of “easy” Bordeaux wines in the price range below 15 € that are meant to be drunk in their first 5-10 years …

In less that very good vintages it´s still different …

Just for instance I had 1979 + 1982 Poujeaux, 1985 Potensac, 1989 Meney, 1989 Chasse-Spleen, 1990 Phelan-Segur in the last months - all still fine …

Moreover: tastes differ a lot - for one person a wine of age 15/20/25 years is a fine aged Bordeaux, for another person it´s over the hill and undrinkable.
I have also to say that many aged wines are not served (imho) properly - pop and pour, not enough air, no slow-oxing, no decanting … and the wine might be shrill, acidic without any fruit. Open it several hours in advance, wait, decant it carefully 20 min before serving and it might be singing …

32

I’d love to hear more on the 89 Meyney.

33

It is all personal preference. I happen to like Bordeaux with some bottle age. Some people do not. There is no right or wrong here.

34

I like many Bordeaux younger rather than older. My wife absolutely abhors tertiary flavors so we drink a lot of them younger. I typically hold my right bank only 10-12 years.

35

From memory only ´cause I don´t have my notes on hand:
Last September, fully mature but still strong (from my cool cellar), light bricking rim, dark center, very typical St.Estephe, masculine, ripe Cabernet fruit, soft mature textures still with a nice bite, noticable acidity, spicy with earthy minerally undertones, mouthfilling and long on the palate, perfect dinner wine, 91 points, drink now and over the next 5 years (if in fine condition).

36

thank you!

37

A lot of this is very wine specific, as others have said. When they were young, I liked 1979 Leoville las Cases better than 1979 Pichon Lalande. Well, over time the Pichon Lalande kept getting better and better and over time became the superior wine. I probably liked the LLC better young than when it matured. By contrast, the 1982 LLC was great young, closed for many, many years and only recently is getting really great again (and better than ever).

38

Always avoid absolute rules about wine

39

Always avoid absolutes about anything. The world is grey!

40

Added words are mine,

So I concur with the judgment of my brother Mollen for slightly separate reasons [grin.gif]

An expansion on that is my overall wine drinking philosophy. I would almost always want to try any wine I have at a young stage, to see that stage of its evolution.

Skal

Mike