Hmm…I find it easier to find a pleasant tasting red wine for less money than a decent white. Perhaps because the wines are more transparent, I am more critical of them, and find it harder to find a good white at a certain price point than an equivalent red. I find reds to be more forgiving.
I find this to be very true — but, I think the reason is because I like younger whites, generally — and, I’m pretty good at selecting them. Drinking a lot of older reds (at least relatively) — they’re more likely to be in a weird place. And, when you open some mushy-fruited or closed red, it is a chore, as someone said, to finish it. I’m WAY more likely to offer a red to the drain Gods than a white…
FWIW, I think it’s easier to find a good inexpensive white than red. But frankly, anymore, it’s not hard to find good and inexpensive white or red. We’re it this easy when I started collecting, I probably wouldn’t have the cellar I do…
Note: Aside from Chablis, I never collected white Burgs and really didn’t have a lot of issues with PMOX.
Fascinating, I’m in exactly the inverse camp, finding it much easier to get whites I really enjoy, even chase, at affordable prices, than reds.
Interesting responses. I also find myself drinking more white burg these days. Part of that may be due to moving to a warmer climate like south Florida.
However, while it may be true that red burgs tend to age better than whites especially considering premox, I’ve found that the best examples of aged whites usually best the best examples of aged reds when considering top producers and vintages with low premox incidences (in my limited experience).
I rarely buy red burg these days even from my favorite producers because of 1) cost 2) wait time. The right white burgs can be enjoyable now and offer a chance for that ethereal experience later (hopefully).
The heaviness, tannin, need for age of so many reds, as well as those gimmicky critic-pandering gloopy things, and a strong market mentality is a lot of the issue here. It’s something to pursue, but there certainly are very enjoyable reds that are enjoyable on release. Some would be in the “light red” category, some just from an alternative region or “lesser” region than a “classic” that may have high tannin as a stereotypical trait. Instead of Napa Cab, you could look to Sonoma, Monterey, San Benito… Those can age just as well, and often enough beat Napa Cabs in blind tastings (as they have as ringers in our group, in various tastings over the years, spanning '70s, '80s, 90’s, etc.) Look away from the regions so constrained by those market expectations and critic pandering, and producers indifferent to that. As a consumer, that’s the path less traveled, so there’s less guidance, but you may ultimately find wines that suit you better or fill an important niche. Plus, they tend to cost less.
Vintage can be a factor, too. Again, critics laud vintages that yield big and/or tannic and concentrated wines. Some “lesser” vintages from classic regions can give you a wine that will be wonderfully mature at 15 years out, while the same producer’s wine from a “great” vintage will be awkward and not particularly enjoyable at that age - and, those critics may or may not have made the right calls on those “great” vintages - something that’ll take 40 years to find out.
White wines more often than not feel chemical/industrial/manipulated in taste for me. Or too floral (it’s like my wife’s scented candles that give me a headache - many white wines are often the equivalent of that). It’s hard to make great whites.
Just had a terribly premoxed 2016 Vatan Sancerre tonight. Can hit wines of any age, and not just Burgs.
For me, I find whites (especially White Burgundy and Chardonnay’s) easier to understand, especially at a younger age. I can see through a White Burg and it’s potential more clearly than Bordeaux or Cabernet. I enjoy both at the right times, but Whites are more easily understood for me.
Jeez that is bad, sorry to hear. Almost all my premoxed bottles have been white burg, other whites much better track record for me.
cheers Brodie
I bet this is a big part of it.
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I would agree with the OP, primarily because the reds that I have collected all seem to need more coddling–aging to the proper age (if too young they are closed and not so enjoyable), opening and decanting 2-3 hours before. standing up for several days at least before opening, etc. Plus, with me in my mid 60’s, our diet has changed, and there is far less red meat, and more white wine friendly food. So, ignoring premox, I would agree. (And most of us have developed strategies to minimize premox disappointment).
Yes, I am.
I didn’t know this kind thing that feels very normal to me would seem like a supernatural power to somebody else.
But as I said, I do my due diligence. Read about the wines, check out the websites how the wines are made, keep my ears open for recommendations, etc. These are not wines I pick by going to a wine shop and picking them by random. For the most part these are wines I’m quite sure I’m going to enjoy before I have tasted them. Sometimes they are exactly like that, sometimes they can disappoint and sometimes they even exceed my expectations. But I’d say on average, yes, they are as CONSISTENTLY good as the wines I buy that I know well.
Sometimes it really helps to keep an open mind.
David Dyroff and I were talking about this awhile ago. Personally, with the exception of a handful of red producers, I buy almost exclusively white, pinot noir (yes, I’m putting PN in a separate category from other reds), and some bubbly. For whatever reason my palate is able to detect more complexity and nuance between these wines.
I would agree that I’ve had more consistently good whites over the years than reds.
But I’ll throw in another variable. At most dinners I attend there are usually a much greater variety of reds than of whites and the whites come from a smaller pool of producers. At least in recent years they seem to be predominantly Huet and Willi Schaefer with the occasional Falkenstein. So it’s really hard to be disappointed.
It’s as if we never stopped cellaring wine together.
It’s an interesting hypothesis. My initial inclination is I don’t agree personally but it’s worthwhile thinking about and being introspective about such a possible bias.
+1
I could not have expressed this sentiment better!
another +1 re what David said…
Brian,
You left off Nebbiolo! In my experience, lovers of Pinot Noir also love Nebbiolo and vice versa.
Based on your posts, I get the impression that we have similar tastes. I’ve gone from exclusively red wines to a 50/50 mix in only the last few years. Other than Riesling and Chardonnay, what other kind of whites do you seek out?
Thanks
I haven’t explored much outside these white varietals. I do have a little weissburgunder/pinot blanc/pinot bianco.