I’m sorry, I’ve had some good ones but I’m not a fan of Chianti on steroids.
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I’m a fan of both Chianti and Brunello. I don’t cellar a lot, though. Sweet spot age-wise seems to be around 10-15 years old, maybe 15-20 for higher end producers who are good at making long aging Sangiovese. Fuligni, Poggio di Sotto, Montevertine, Ragnaie, Pian dell’Orino are some that I like.
It’s nice to have some wines in the cellar that don’t need 20-30 years or more to hit peak (and yes I have plenty of those as well). I don’t mean to say that these wines can’t age a lot longer, just that I’ve found them to hit for me quite a bit earlier than top Bordeaux, Burg, Barolo, N. Rhône stuff.
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Pricing is attractive, too. I also really like the Rosso level from these regions and find myself reaching for those more often their burlier brethren.
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I think it’s more a price correction than “dumping”. Still a fair amount of '18s out there (lesser vintage) at reasonable prices and the '20s are out (better vintage).
Isn’t that how the wine market generally works when it comes to vintage competition?
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All of that may be true, but do you not think they offer better value than Barolo/Barbaresco, and of course better value than Burgundy. With the added benefit of being easier to drink than Bordeaux.
I don’t buy Brunello because I’m picky and it doesn’t seem worth it for me and my limited storage. But one of my good friends is a big fan and everytime he opens a nice Brunello it’s always a good time, the pricing is not ridiculous, and they enter harmonious zones earlier than other areas.
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For me, I don’t really mentally draw the comparison to Barolo or Barbaresco. Barolo/Barbaresco are the burgundies of Italy and Brunello is more like the claret. But I don’t think I agree that they’re easier to drink than Bordeaux. They’re released at nearabouts the same point in their evolution when Bordeaux starts shutting down. You end up buying closed wine right off the shelf! This was very frustrating when I was first getting into the stuff and trying to figure out which producers I liked. You can’t figure out much.
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Yes, I think that tracks. And I’m not here actually advocating for Brunello! I don’t buy it myself. I do often wonder if I should, but the points you make are part of the reason I don’t.
Whoops!
Everything Ive read has 19 as a better vintage than 20, what do tou think makes 20 better?
I’m all honesty, it could just the wines that I buy on a regular basis vs. a blanket vintage statement. My conversations with an owner/winemaker also gave me that impression. Maybe some geographic variation going on?
I did stumble upon this though, but there are only a few wines in there that I have/will purchase:
The tasting panel highlighted the 2020 vintage’s slight advantage over 2019, with a narrow margin of 0.2 points separating the two. Despite the close scores, 2020 emerged as the favorite among 19 tasters, compared to 7 for 2019 and 4 expressing no preference
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Thanks, and excited to hear that as its a wedding vintage. Need to read more into it though
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I absolutely love Brunello with 10 years of age. It’s one of my favorite flavor profiles (leather and cherry with high acidity). Not everyone’s cup of tea clearly, but I think there are a lot of producers that represent great value for the quality (Valdicava with age is in the upper echelon of all red wines for me). Brunello does not have the name recognition with casual drinkers that Bordeaux and Burgundy have, but similarly, it’s not a wine that (IMO) will be enjoyed early. Given that Brunello ages for 5 years before release, there is very little that a producer can do relative to understanding what COVID and the general market will be at the time of release. It does not surprise me that a high volume year (for Brunello) like 2019 has created softness and discount pricing. If you have the space, it’s a good time to buy.
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At least in Europe I haven’t thought of Brunello as more affordable. Haven’t bought much since 2016 but there’s such a wealth of very good and affordable Barolo/Barbaresco (actual price and with quality in mind). I can’t say the same for Brunello unfortunate.
Fair enough. I was thinking that Brunello seems to top out at lower prices than Barolo. But I suppose that’s not the same thing as saying there is better value for any given price.
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I drink Brunello about once a year or less. I often enjoy it when I have it, but I really don’t know enough about it to really buy it. Don’t know vintages, don’t know producers. Don’t know at what age to drink it. And, as always, don’t know who makes it in a traditional style and who has gone over to the dark side.
Guess if I really cared, I would have learned these things but I would not mind having a few bottles around to drink it once in a while. BUT: Don’t know vintages, don’t know producers. Don’t know at what age to drink it. Etc. Any links to good threads here on this board that would be of help?
I think in the long run 2019 will prove to be the better vintage. From what I’ve read, 2020 has been likened to 2015, a really good year, but not as good as 2016 or 2019.
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I’ve gotten some good deals on Brunellos from WTSO in the high 20s to mid 30s range but due diligence is needed.
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Put me in the love Brunello camp. One of my first “wow” wines was a Lisini Brunello (85, 88, or 90 I’ms sure, but I don’t remember which) that someone brought to Vini Vidi Vici in Atlanta for an offline during the early days of such “internet axe murderers” gatherings.
Another was the 2010 Valicava off a wine list in Phx a few years ago, at one of those group dinners where I was given the wine ordering responsibilities. Not only was it great, but another attendee still tells me it’s the best wine she’s ever had when we see one another.
An additional plus is that after having ;their moment in the '90s and jumping in price, additional plantings and supply came on that kept the prices moderate. For probably a good 15 years, my beloved Lisini could be found with some effort for $40 or less.
I do agree that you have to be selective, as some sites are better than others, especially since all the expansion, and the wines are made in many styles due variations in micro-climate and winemaking styles. Likewise, I agree that it doesn’t make old bones as well as some others, presumably because of the extended barrel aging before bottling. But at 10-15 and even 20 (depending), it’s one of the world’s great wines, and great values.
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I’m hearing the same for 2021s and even 2022s. I’ll be in Tuscany fall of 2026 and see for myself.
wasn’t the last acerage expansion in the 90s though? And only for a short window could you plant?
They did recently allow for vineyards above 600m.
I think many here have understandably bad memories of oaked up monsters in the late-90s and into 00s when that era was rife with barrique usage across Italy, but especially in Tuscany. There are still some souped-up wines, but I was just there (and in Chianti) and found a lot of the wines to be much more to what people here would want in the cellar (aka Botti usage and if using smaller barrels, it’s tonneaux or older barrique that has seen more than a few passes). Montalcino wines will always have a larger-scaled take to them as the climate is quite different from Chianti. Chianti is more dramatic hills and greens while Montalcino isn’t as dramatic in the aspect of the hills and has more dark oranges and browns in the landscape as the surrounding area is more farm land (though it still very much has the altitude of Chianti). The irony is that Chianti has soared in price recently and there are plenty of Chiantis floating in the 14-15% alcohol range these days. It’s almost as if Montalcino has just stood still in terms of pricing and perception (though there has been a sea change in terms of farming and in the cellars).