Is Balthazar the next gonon?

[HMechbal]

In France, while they don’t stay too long available, Balthazar’s wines don’t disappear instantly from the websites or appear at very inflated price from the onset like other cult wines. For instance I was able to source Chaillot 2018 at 47€ a couple of months ago. Small allocation in the website but it stayed available for like 1-2 weeks. Casimir is still available in the same website at 38€ two months after they appeared. I’m surprised by the gap with US price. Don’t think it has attained “cult” status here at this stage. It’s one good, not vary famous producer amongst others. Some friends chase Barret’s Cornas instead for instance…

Never saw Gerard’s Cote Rotie, Verset, Juge wines on the other hand. Nor “good” prices for Allemand. Gonon also, almost everyone puts it at inflated price from the onset now, there are rare places which put them at 45-50€ allegedly, but haven’t found one yet, people are of course reticent to share these secret spots .

[PCLIN]

Not for me.

[Michae1_P0wers]

Gonon is cult?

Secondary pricing is regularly more than 2X, and often more like 3X release pricing so it would seem to fit the criteria. It’s not unobtainable though, if that’s something you’d consider to be necessary.

Increased pricing makes it a cult? Even then, with the stuff that I read here, there’s almost a dichotomous divide between those who say they agree with the increased prices, although am not sure if they have bought (or will buy) at the current prices, and those who say they don’t think the current price is higher than the wine warrants. Plus, in spite of all these, as you say, they’re still available.

I’ve never really considered what makes a wine a cult, and don’t think it matters much either way. It’s well-regarded, somewhat scarce, and sells at a much higher price than release. I’d think that ticks a lot of the boxes for a cult wine. Not many “cult” Napa cabs sell for more than 200% of their release price anymore, and those are the wines most associated with the term. The only one Gonon misses is that it can be found at retail, though it’s not widely available (W-S pro shows current release 2018 available from five domestic retailers). So, maybe it’s cult lite; semi-cult; cultish?

[Greg_K]

Secondary pricing is regularly more than 2X, and often more like 3X release pricing so it would seem to fit the criteria. It’s not unobtainable though, if that’s something you’d consider to be necessary.

Increased pricing makes it a cult? Even then, with the stuff that I read here, there’s almost a dichotomous divide between those who say they agree with the increased prices, although am not sure if they have bought (or will buy) at the current prices, and those who say they don’t think the current price is higher than the wine warrants. Plus, in spite of all these, as you say, they’re still available.

I’ve never really considered what makes a wine a cult, and don’t think it matters much either way. It’s well-regarded, somewhat scarce, and sells at a much higher price than release. I’d think that ticks a lot of the boxes for a cult wine. Not many “cult” Napa cabs sell for more than 200% of their release price anymore, and those are the wines most associated with the term. The only one Gonon misses is that it can be found at retail, though it’s not widely available (W-S pro shows current release 2018 available from five domestic retailers). So, maybe it’s cult lite; semi-cult; cultish?

Is 2018 actually at those retailers? I didn’t think it was in the country yet. Almost none of the 2018s are.

[CFu]

Would be the end as we know it!

Hardly the end, but I think the Northern Rhones that are “culty” at the moment are either mostly deserving (Allemand, Gonon, Jamet) or are due to the winemakers being retired/deceased (Juge, Verset (both in his case)). I love Balthazar’s Chaillot and buy some every year, but it’s not that small of a production (like, say, Gerard’s LaLa) and the rest of his wines aren’t nearly as good as the Chaillot.

If I’m wrong and Balthazar’s Chaillot rivals Allemand’s in price, I won’t shed any tears as it falls off my annual buy list - there are plenty of similar producers making great wine at a lower price point.

This is where I’m at as well. I’ve bought some here and there but it has never made enough of an impact for me to load up, not even the sans soufre.

Their SS is all young vines fruit and fairly susceptible to getting mousy. The chaillot is the only “worthwhile” buy imo

[Michae1_P0wers]

Increased pricing makes it a cult? Even then, with the stuff that I read here, there’s almost a dichotomous divide between those who say they agree with the increased prices, although am not sure if they have bought (or will buy) at the current prices, and those who say they don’t think the current price is higher than the wine warrants. Plus, in spite of all these, as you say, they’re still available.

I’ve never really considered what makes a wine a cult, and don’t think it matters much either way. It’s well-regarded, somewhat scarce, and sells at a much higher price than release. I’d think that ticks a lot of the boxes for a cult wine. Not many “cult” Napa cabs sell for more than 200% of their release price anymore, and those are the wines most associated with the term. The only one Gonon misses is that it can be found at retail, though it’s not widely available (W-S pro shows current release 2018 available from five domestic retailers). So, maybe it’s cult lite; semi-cult; cultish?

Is 2018 actually at those retailers? I didn’t think it was in the country yet. Almost none of the 2018s are.

Nope, good call. Those are pre-arrival. I’d just clicked the link off of CT to see price and availability. 2017 is the current release I suppose. Looks like 7 retailers, about the same price with a low of $128.00.

[Greg_K]

Hardly the end, but I think the Northern Rhones that are “culty” at the moment are either mostly deserving (Allemand, Gonon, Jamet) or are due to the winemakers being retired/deceased (Juge, Verset (both in his case)). I love Balthazar’s Chaillot and buy some every year, but it’s not that small of a production (like, say, Gerard’s LaLa) and the rest of his wines aren’t nearly as good as the Chaillot.

If I’m wrong and Balthazar’s Chaillot rivals Allemand’s in price, I won’t shed any tears as it falls off my annual buy list - there are plenty of similar producers making great wine at a lower price point.

This is where I’m at as well. I’ve bought some here and there but it has never made enough of an impact for me to load up, not even the sans soufre.

Their SS is all young vines fruit and fairly susceptible to getting mousy. The chaillot is the only “worthwhile” buy imo

Yup.

[DanielP]

2016 Casimir was pretty good stuff imo, although I don’t think I’d be a buyer at the $50 I’ve been offered for the 17. <40 made it a pretty reasonable buy. But the 16 Chaillot was a noticeable step up in everything, especially in density and structure. Not a fan of the SS, just didn’t feel very serious and was not cheap either.

[Vinod_S]

Think the Chaillot is great and also get a case of the Cotes du Rhone as a nice weekday drinker or when hosting groups for $10-15 in the UK.

[Steven_Dilley]

I like Balthazar and Faury, but for me Monier comes closer to scratching the Gonon itch than the others. (Though I still drink quite a bit more Gonon than Monier, at least for now.)

[Paul_Jaouen]

I like Balthazar and Faury, but for me Monier comes closer to scratching the Gonon itch than the others. (Though I still drink quite a bit more Gonon than Monier, at least for now.)

This! Monier makes some great St Joseph. Love Gonon but not at current prices.

[Jonathan_Loesberg]

Which cuvée of Monier are people talking about?

[Paul_Jaouen]

Which cuvée of Monier are people talking about?

I like the Terre Blanche and Chatelet for earlier consumption. The Les Sevres is more serious and the one cuvee that sees new oak and needs some time to integrate the oak. I think all three are very good.

[mbzima]

I think people like Envoyer are just waiting for tariffs to end before they put in orders for many wines. This has probably temporarily inflated prices? I’ll wait until I see it at where I’ve bought it from before. That said, Balthazar was a good qpr for a long while. Now with the Juge vines…

The juge vines was a one time thing for 2015 if I remember correctly.

At $60 I thought balthazar chaillot was one of the best qpr in France. That wine delivered in spades

In 2015 the Juge vines were bottled separately, it was one barrel. From 2016 on that parcel has gone in to the cuvee Sans Soufre.