Interesting sticker - your thoughts?

[C_Mc_Cart]

Simple - avoid purchase. Even Lapierre.

Firmly in the camp that believes the further any natural wine gets from where & when it was made the worse it will be.

Addressing your question - label is a good idea & quite responsible. One question - Are they being proactive, or are they addressing known issues/ complaints with a warning label? Should be part of the bottle label for any such wines.

On another note - my guess is corked bottle incidence will continue to decrease with improved cork production and rejection of these types of wines will rapidly increase from cellars/ resto’s due to insufficient storage/ shipping conditions and random spoilage.

Your position strikes me as really aggressive! Obviously drink whatever you like, but the Lapierre is a very good wine, as are several others. I had an excellent 2015 Cornelissen Contadino last night, seventh of a case and all sound. I imagine many people wouldn’t like that wine, it’s very unique, but I think it’s great from time to time and can only assume it wouldn’t taste the same with sulfur.

It wasn’t meant to strike anyone as aggressive, and especially not “really aggressive!”. I made no negative comment on Lapierre (in fact I inferred the opposite that I consider Lapierre a premier producer, as I say it isn’t worth buying natural wines from another continent even IF it is a Lapierre). I believe my opinion is not completely unproven or uncommon and I surely heard it before I had enough of my own evidence to agree. You’re correct a sulfured version of the Morgon in question wouldn’t be the same, but neither are Stelvin vs. natural cork of the same wines even at 1 or 2 years past vintage of the same wine and I think most of us are over that by now. YMMV.

[John_Morris]

There was an old-line Italian winery in Napa (the name eludes me now) that sold a moscato that was not very stable. The sold it refrigerated only and told visitors not to leave it in a hot car. Anyone remember that?

Maybe Louis Martini? I worked in a wine shop back when I was going to college and a couple of times people came in asking for a wine that they had at the winery that we didn’t carry. I did call the winery and they did sell a wine that was only sold at the winery because it had to be kept cool. IIRC Martini use to pasteurize most of their wines at the time. A moscato would make sense.

That’s the name I was trying to recall!

[John_Morris]

I understand the purpose of it in keeping wine stable, but I think it’s undeniable that wines without have a certain vibrant quality to them.

I actually find the opposite. I regularly taste blindly, and I’ve found I can very often tell the unsulfured wines. They have an aroma and flavor that reminds me of a dirty dishrag. I read somewhere someone describing it at mouse piss. It’s consistent across grapes and regions for me, though not in every low/no-sulfur wine. To me it robs the wines of the distinctive character of the grape and the locale.

That sounds like a great offline theme: blind sulfered vs unsulfered. Has anyone here done this?

Great idea. I haven’t done it side by side but, as I said, I’ve frequently been able to pick out unsulfured wines in blind tastings – and not in a good way – where the other wines were made conventionally.

[PeterH]

There was an old-line Italian winery in Napa (the name eludes me now) that sold a moscato that was not very stable. The sold it refrigerated only and told visitors not to leave it in a hot car. Anyone remember that?

Maybe Louis Martini? I worked in a wine shop back when I was going to college and a couple of times people came in asking for a wine that they had at the winery that we didn’t carry. I did call the winery and they did sell a wine that was only sold at the winery because it had to be kept cool. IIRC Martini use to pasteurize most of their wines at the time. A moscato would make sense.

I remember buying and enjoying Louis Martini Moscato Amabile back in the '70s. They still make it. It has lots of RS, so if a secondary fermentation took hold, there would be exploding bottles.

[Michae1_P0wers]

It wasn’t meant to strike anyone as aggressive, and especially not “really aggressive!”. I made no negative comment on Lapierre (in fact I inferred the opposite that I consider Lapierre a premier producer, as I say it isn’t worth buying natural wines from another continent even IF it is a Lapierre). I believe my opinion is not completely unproven or uncommon and I surely heard it before I had enough of my own evidence to agree. You’re correct a sulfured version of the Morgon in question wouldn’t be the same, but neither are Stelvin vs. natural cork of the same wines even at 1 or 2 years past vintage of the same wine and I think most of us are over that by now. YMMV.

Chris, perhaps aggressive was a poor choice of words; I was just saying it was a strong stance!

[Paul_Miller]

There was an old-line Italian winery in Napa (the name eludes me now) that sold a moscato that was not very stable. The sold it refrigerated only and told visitors not to leave it in a hot car. Anyone remember that?

Maybe Louis Martini? I worked in a wine shop back when I was going to college and a couple of times people came in asking for a wine that they had at the winery that we didn’t carry. I did call the winery and they did sell a wine that was only sold at the winery because it had to be kept cool. IIRC Martini use to pasteurize most of their wines at the time. A moscato would make sense.

I remember buying and enjoying Louis Martini Moscato Amabile back in the '70s. They still make it. It has lots of RS, so if a secondary fermentation took hold, there would be exploding bottles.

Is that the wine they sold out of the cement, open-air vat?

[Matthew_Brown]

As for retail, there used to be a great wine shop in Las Vegas called 55 Degrees where the whole store was kept at cellar temp. It was fun, sadly gone. It’s way cool, but I don’t think this retail model is workable in the long run.

I have always thought an interesting project would be to check out the temps in the various retail shops in my neck of the woods. Many seem to be kept in the upper 70s. One wine store in MD I walked into was so warm inside I immediately walked out, thinking that anything that sat around in this shop is slowly cooking to death.

Greg

Admittedly a bit easier to do in Winter, but we keep it as close to 60 as the A/C will get us all year round

[Greg_Ossi]

Admittedly a bit easier to do in Winter, but we keep it as close to 60 as the A/C will get us all year round

That is fantastic and appreciated. But I would bet your store is one of the exceptions to the general temperateness I have observed of other stores. (Caveat - I have never actually measured the temperature in any store, so it is quite possible I am way off base - but I do not think so).

[Markus_S]

Admittedly a bit easier to do in Winter, but we keep it as close to 60 as the A/C will get us all year round

That is fantastic and appreciated. But I would bet your store is one of the exceptions to the general temperateness I have observed of other stores. (Caveat - I have never actually measured the temperature in any store, so it is quite possible I am way off base - but I do not think so).

The old Table & Vine when they were in Northampton had a large store they kept at a cool temperature too (the new one in Springfield is not as cool), you actually felt chilled looking around too long.

[David_Wright]

And before that, T&V was Big Y Wines in Northhampton. I think the (very large) wine section was kept in the 50s… a good place to shop on a warm summer day.

[Drew_Goin]

Maybe Louis Martini? I worked in a wine shop back when I was going to college and a couple of times people came in asking for a wine that they had at the winery that we didn’t carry. I did call the winery and they did sell a wine that was only sold at the winery because it had to be kept cool. IIRC Martini use to pasteurize most of their wines at the time. A moscato would make sense.

I have read on this forum the same thing.

The claim was that the Martini wines were more-or-less “pasteurized” at the winery, thus arresting the development (and deterioration) of many bottlings. This was offered as an explanation for why many of the non-vintage “bin-designated” wines on auction sites prove to be solid drinking +40 years later.

[Wes_Barton]

I understand the purpose of it in keeping wine stable, but I think it’s undeniable that wines without have a certain vibrant quality to them.

I actually find the opposite. I regularly taste blindly, and I’ve found I can very often tell the unsulfured wines. They have an aroma and flavor that reminds me of a dirty dishrag. I read somewhere someone describing it at mouse piss. It’s consistent across grapes and regions for me, though not in every low/no-sulfur wine. To me it robs the wines of the distinctive character of the grape and the locale.

That sounds like a great offline theme: blind sulfered vs unsulfered. Has anyone here done this?

Great idea. I haven’t done it side by side but, as I said, I’ve frequently been able to pick out unsulfured wines in blind tastings – and not in a good way – where the other wines were made conventionally.

But, that’s because the wines weren’t kept stable. This sticker is warning people handling these wines that they need extra care. There’s living stuff in them that can take off and ruin the wines. >FRAGILE<

The point of doing a no sulfite wine is they show an extra dimension. If you were a winemaker and sensed one of your wines would show a degree of magnitude better without being dulled down by sulfite, wouldn’t that be tempting?

[DougS]

And Lapierre is not the only producer that does a sulfured and unsulfured bottling of the same wine.

That sounds like a great offline theme: blind sulfered vs unsulfered. Has anyone here done this?

That would be so interesting.

I compared the two Lapierre bottlings a while back.

comparing Lapierre Morgon with and without added SO2

[David_Bu3ker]

And before that, T&V was Big Y Wines in Northhampton. I think the (very large) wine section was kept in the 50s… a good place to shop on a warm summer day.

The “special” room at Table & Vine in West Springfield is still kept in the 50s.

[Robert_M_yers]

Who applied the sticker? I could see the importer/distributor doing it to get ahead of possible return issues if they took the proper steps to get it to the retailer

[Richard_Albert]

Pardon my poor attempt at humor above.

Since the feaseability of a complete alternative distribution channel right to the glass for wine that require temps in the 50’s is unattainable at this point, how do the winemakers expect their clients to experience the new enhanced/extra dimension flavors and aromas undiminished?

[SteveG]

I see this as a pathetic attempt by the winemaker to shift the burden of producing a reasonably stable and clean wine from him/herself to the consumer, who as pointed out many times above is generally not in control of the wine’s handling anyhow.

I have had at least a few dozen bottles of wine which either have specifically stated or are simply known to be made without sulfering and significant filtering, and while a few clearly did not survive the voyage, by and large they were fine, and I like quite a lot of them. I don’t have any sense that a wine made expressly to be unpreserved is inherently so fragile that it cannot survive normal handling and storage for at least a couple of years.