Imagine

WINE TALK
1

Not in the slightest since I stopped paying attention to critics 5 years ago and haven’t bought cellarworthy wine for 3. Even i I start buying again in earnest I know enough of what I like that I don’t need a critic to guide me.

That doesn’t stop me from talking about the influence of critics on others or on the market as a whole though. neener

2

I no longer subscribe to any wine publications, so it wouldn’t affect me that much. Do I still buy something retail if I see a high score; sometimes. But they (publications) have much less of an effect on my purchasing than they used to. I rely on tasting notes from people I know and trust or my own palate when possible.

3

I would probably just assume that my wife threw them all away.

But I wouldn’t worry about it. I don’t pay much attention to them anymore.

4

I may not use them to select my wines, but I still enjoy reading them. I would miss that.

5

There would be a lot less fodder for (wine board) discussion! [wink.gif] Really though, I wouldn’t mind too much … I pretty much use CT notes as my reference these days, so as long as we still got CT, then all would be good. [dance-clap.gif]

6

My kids would miss me (at least at their present ages) :slight_smile:

I think such an occurance would have some noticeable effects on the market- some positive and some negative. On the positive side, a larger number of the better merchants would begin to do even more of their own research and recommendations. For every Grapes or Wine Connection out there going their own way and willing to do a lot of their own heavy lifting, there are dozens of equally large stores out there just happy to post the points of whatever got a good score and take orders until the juice is gone. So the concept of wine merchant would revert back to an earlier manifestation when many were more active in selecting and selling their own stock. Some at it now would stretch their wings and soar, while others would close up shop or go back to focusing on jug wines and Absolut exclusively.

In this same regard though, I think it would have more of a negative effect in concentrating even further the fine wine market to fewer players in major urban centers, where the density of population would provide the cash flow to help fund the travel that would be required to develop the expertise to select at a high level. This is particularly true of new vintages coming down the line (particularly in a limited production area like Burgundy), where someone is going to have to taste the wines before they come into the pipeline, so as to know what is wanted in time to have a chance of tracking them down. A subscription can offset a lot of travel costs- particularly where a merchant is further outside the major metro areas and may have less ready access to a wide array of wines at the distributor level- or is further away from major wine-producing regions and incurs heavier costs in terms of travel.

On the positive side (at least IMO), you would probably have a dramatic decrease in the number of “engineered” wines made to hit certain sweet spots for focus groups or critics, or at least the numbers would not continue to grow exponentially. But less well-known regions would have a harder time competing against the tried and true areas like Bordeaux and California, and a lot of interesting wines might go begging for an audience. And it is awfully hard to imagine a renaissance like we are witnessing with small grower Champagne having even a remote chance of success in the future without some critical push behind the wines. Very few merchants- even with the positive reviews of many of these growers- are willing to champion them to their customers, when they can just stack up a handful of Grandes Marques and treat Champagne as a commodity that sells itself- which in so many markets is exactly what happens.

But the original intent of the post was on a personal purchasing level, and I noted that most responders have sufficient experience and deep enough cellars to have little need today of wine publications. But you have to ask yourself honestly how much of your current base of knowledge was at least directed by what you may have read previously. Of course one has to separate the wheat from the chaff in terms of what you personally like after tasting various recommended wines- but for the vast majority of wine collectors out there, I think that in their fundamental years of building a cellar, reviews were useful and important. For my own part, I owe a tremendous debt to Robert Parker, Clive Coates et. al., as in my earliest years in the trade, their writing about regions, producers and wines that I was fairly unfamiliar with sparked an interest in getting to know these wines. As a junior staff member, I would have had no opportunity to travel on the company’s dime for many years to come (and certainly did not earn enough to finance my own travel- ask any junior clerk what he or she makes- its not a pretty number), but learned plenty about various regions and their wines long before I had moved far enough up the food chain to be sent on buying trips, and I have to think that there are plenty of young members in the wine trade today whose experience mirrors my formative years. Similarly, plenty of young collectors gain potentially valuable information from publications.

I am not trying to justify the existence of my journal, but simply to point out that even though one may have come out into the light at the far end of the tunnel after years of tasting and collecting, and to no longer have much use for wine publications, there are plenty of younger folks that may have recently discovered the magic of wine and where publications can still be quite meaningful. For this generation of potential future wine collectors, one of the biggest issues that faces them is the cost of wines these days, as I cannot imagine a lot of junior sales clerks that can go out and stretch to buy that odd bottle of mature Chave Hermitage or Chateau Latour these days (as I was able to do when I was first learning the business). I would assume the same applies to younger collectors (outside of young buck traders on Wall Street during bull markets), who may end up with a few prized, high end bottles in their collection, but most will be relying on critical press on the wines in selecting them, rather than opening a few to see what they like at their current price levels. In this regard, a little accurate knowledge can still go a long way.

Best,

John

7

:wink:

8

Taking nothing away from CT the product . . . I bet there would be a whole lot less CT notes without wine publications.

9

I can’t imagine a world where the publications are gone. I think the influence of some publications will diminish. That said, as John says, as people like Allen Meadows say, as Josh Raynolds has said in the past, the depth of experience, the perspective, the background that critics can bring to the table is considerable. And when the discussion moves beyond “how many points did 'dat one get?” then I think the ongoing value is very clear.

Of course my goal is to work with people like John, Steve Tanzer, hopefully someday Allen Meadows, Claude Kolm, Parker, to help bring their information together for people who are willing to pay and who see the value. I think there is a strong core of collectors who could/would/will continue to subscribe, especially if it is really easy. And as John says, there are whole generations of passionate collectors come. The challenge is how we ‘grow the pie’ to draw people into wine and then help them see the value in all different forms of criticism.

Somewhat related, I do think that you will see continued specialization, as this allows a critic to show more depth in a given area. Burghound is the best example, but we also had it with Galloni, Roy Hersh etc. And all due respect to John who covers a lot of ground, but when you start getting into his reviews on the Loire, Germany and various other high acid stuff, wowza and I mean WOWZA in the best possible way. He is not shy about holding back points or expressing strong opinions. I love it!

10

In that case, someone owes me an 82 Mouton.

11

Anyone who is in the wine industry would be greatly affected.
It would be as if a sizeable earthquake had struck many wine regions, mostly those regions that don’t enjoy long standing reputations as high-end producers.
People would have to get deadly serious about selling their own wines, instead of having others do the selling for them.

My own buying patterns wouldn’t change much.
Not unless we could amend your hypothetical to suggest that all memory of wine publications also disappeared.
That would be nice. Then I could go back to buying Raveneau Les Clos by the case in every vintage. [Damn you, Burghound!!!]

12

It would be a double edged sword for consumers, as wineries would no longer be able to “price by the point” but we would not get that “heads up” on wines that aren’t currently available either. It would be interesting to say the least.

13

John Glman notes about that “…for the vast majority of wine collectors out there, I think that in their fundamental years of building a cellar, reviews were useful and important.” and I’d agree. I think critical publications are important in two phases of one’s education - when you’re trying to get a grip on various regions and when you’ve decided what you love and want focused attention on that. The phase after this, knowing enough about the area you care about, means you don’t need critics anymore. However, that presumes you’re OK with not learning about new producers in your chosen areas and that you’re not getting into new areas. When you do that, you either need a tested merchant, friends or at least a community like this to give you an idea of what to check out.

14

Hard to say, Serge.
I think everyone benefits to some extent.
It is more difficult to attempt to put a value on this, though. Especially since there are downsides to the use of point scores as well.

I’d be inclined to say that the critics themselves benefit the most (at least the successful ones), since there is little downside for them.

15

I don’t agree with that just because I am less likely to take purchasing advice from those who are trying to sell to me with only a few exceptions (Lance,Dan, Max).I’d much rather get advice from someone who has no commercial interest.

16

I think for people getting into a certain region of wine , wine publications are invaluable. You can sync your palate with them and figure out what you like and don’t like… and then grow by yourself afterwards. I enjoy the articles WS writes because they are educational. I enjoy the ratings Burghound gives because they are so detailed.

I’d miss those things if they were gone.

17

Hmm… but all you really need are a few good merchants out there (I’m lucky to have one locally who’s become a close friend). The good thing about a merchant is that you can try something, talk to them, tell them what you like and don’t and course correct. You can’t do that with a critic - you can adjust to them, but you can’t try some wines that they’ve liked, then tell them what you thought and get recommendations.

I guess I just dislike the idea that you inherently can’t trust a merchant just because they sell wine.

18

I Dan/M&S think is quite atypical and VERY good … although I miss Fisher. That guy had a serious bead on my palate, forced me to buy whack-ass stuff that I would never buy. And whenever I open them, I kick myself for not buying more.

19

Have you tried emailing any? I bet most would like the feedback and would respond.