If you had to choose...: Beaune or Nuits ?

[Peter_Chiu]

Dan…thanks for your reminder. Here are my answers to the OP, I gave up white beside I got burnt; and now I drink Chardonnay from Argentine. For the reds I move from Nuits to Beaune - around Corton hill - due to price.

That being said, I still move freely depends when my hood; or if I am sharing my bottles with my wife ( or my girl friend - Carmen from Spain ).

[J_Slawney]

Nuits plus Montrachet would be ideal for me. I know that is cheating.

[Michael_P_P]

To be honest, I think you are going about this backwards. By trying Burgundy by appellation, you are going to find a huge amount of dogs and are going to find Burgundy confusing and inconsistent. IMHO, the best way to learn about Burgundy is to try producers and find the producers who sing to you. For example, I very much like the wines of Hudelot-Noellat. I like them when they come from Vosne Romanee, I like them when they come from Chambolle Musigny, I like them when they come from Vougeot. FOCUS ON PRODUCER, NOT APPELLATION.

One reason I love the wines of MSD is because of the bevy of wonderful producers there - I love the wines of Jacky Truchot (wines from MSD and GC), but he retired after the 2005 vintage in general and the wines now are pretty much impossible to find. But, there also are other wonderful producers like Domaine des Lambrays, Dujac, Cecile Tremblay, Hubert Lignier, etc., etc., etc. Lots of wonderful producers there. And, I like the flavors of the wines they make - for me, they are very pure Burgundy flavors without some of the add ons from other villages.

But, forget MSD. You say you want to start with the basics. Well, the basics are producer, not appellation, just like in every other wine region in the world.

Disagree. Every single one of those producers will tell you they are trying to make wines reflecting their terroirs, not themselves. Some do it better than others, obviously. But if your goal is to understand Burgundy, understanding Vosne-Romanee is a deeper sort of knowledge than understanding Hudelot Noellat, even if Hudelot Noellat makes wonderful Vosne-Romanees. Anyway, it’s not an either-or for someone starting out. The best approach is just to try a lot of different things without going broke, which is really more a matter of keeping your antennae up for good deals whatever they may be than it is making a conscious effort to shop an appellation or a producer.

Thanks. I am listening to both of your advice, Howard and Keith.

At the moment, I don’t really know what I prefer yet. So wouldn’t it be interesting to at least have an idea what the differences would be
between Volnay, Pommard etc, and villages in Côte de Nuits? I am one too, though, for recognizing that producers and their styles can do the
most impact on the wines, don’t get me wrong.

Along the lines of what Keith said, I am generally trying to look for good deals in Burgundy. Right now it happened to be Beaune. Partly because I listened
to Jasper Morris which spoke warmly more than once about Beaune. But also because I wanted to start somewhere.

I am, however as you suggested Howard, trying to buy more things from one producer. But it seems that producers generally own land in either Beaune or Nuits?

I’m not sure if you have any experiences with these producers, but in my last purchase (for example), I bought:

• Pernand, Pernand 1er Cru, Pernand Blanc from Domaine Rollin
• Pommard, Pommard 1er Cru, Volnay, Volnay 1er Cru & Mersault Blanc from Christophe Vaudoisey
• Chassagne-Montrachet Rouge, St Aubin 1er Cru from Domaine Larue.
• few other Chassagnes from other producers.

I will keep an eye out for interesting producers in Nuits and Beaune. But I will try to focus on good deals, where you don’t have to pay a fortune to
taste a sense of terroir and place. If you have to go bankrupt to do so, then it’s probably not for me. But I don’t believe Burgundy is or should be like that.

I will start looking more at some villages and producers in the Nuits.
Thank you for recommending some producers in MSD, Howard, appreciate it.

[Michael_P_P]

Back to the OP, I couldn’t give up white burgundy and generally prefer red over black fruit anyway so I’ll buck the trend and pick beaune.

Thank you!

Any villages and producers you especially like?

[dbailey]

Back to the OP, I couldn’t give up white burgundy and generally prefer red over black fruit anyway so I’ll buck the trend and pick beaune.

Thank you!

Any villages and producers you especially like?

As Antoine noted, I like pycm (a lot!), mainly because you actually get to drink them rather than pour them down the sink…. I’m also a big fan of the various pillots chassagnes and guy amiot’s have been sensational in my (admittedly limited) experience. In terms of red cdb, I love chassagne montrachets again. Indeed, if you were to rephrase your question to “if forced to the wines from one village in burgundy which would you choose?” then cm would be the only option for me. The cm reds have become a bit of a cult around here in general - there are really good ones made by the various pillots, Caroline morey and ramonet of course.

[Peter_Chiu]

Along the lines of what Keith said, I am generally trying to look for good deals in Burgundy. Right now it happened to be Beaune. Partly because I listened
to Jasper Morris which spoke warmly more than once about Beaune. But also because I wanted to start somewhere.*

Good ! Now … we know that Machail P P is on the road…leading… to Burgundy ( and that he is looking the trouble is his long life ) and also is currently searching for his beloved and preferred producers in Beaune .

Here is what I suggest : if I am looking for a style - similar to Rousseau ( in Gevrey ) and Roumier ( in Chambolle ), by far my choice is is David Croix ( Domaine Des Croix ). Bill Nanson ( The Finish łines of Burgundy page 230 ) talks highly about him and I agree totally. The prices of his wines are within reasons in Montreal,Quebec, Canada. They should be available in Sweden ( or Europe ).

If I am looking for style opposite to Des Croix, I have two go-to producers :

Chevalier Pere et Fils. Jasper Morris ( page 289 ) prefers the Domaine whites and said they are the Demaine strenth in that they still use 20% new wood for his simple Ladoix…etc… and that they are stylish with good concentration. His C.C ( from Corton Le Rognet ) …is the cheapest C.C in Montreal, Quebec, Canada.


My 2nd go-to Beaune producer, also by far, is Michel Mallard. Please do not ask me why. It is a very personal choice and you have to trust me. He was chosen to be the wine-maker for Domaine d’Eugenie in 2006 by Chateaux Latour with good reasons. His 2nd debut vintage for CdV -Domaine D’Eugneir in 2007…was something specially and sadly I did not have a chance to try one. His own Domaine makes unbelievable QPR wines in Ladoix and A-Corton.

[Peter_Chiu]

*…The cm reds have become a bit of a cult around here in general - there are really good ones made by the various pillots, Caroline morey and ramonet of course.

Dan…I noticed this trend too. At the beginning I was surprised because I could count the total bottles of red Chassagne by one hand. But after some deep thoughts, why not ? I am switching more and more to red Ladoix and A/Corton since vintage 2011-2012.

[Michael_P_P]

Back to the OP, I couldn’t give up white burgundy and generally prefer red over black fruit anyway so I’ll buck the trend and pick beaune.

Thank you!

Any villages and producers you especially like?

As Antoine noted, I like pycm (a lot!), mainly because you actually get to drink them rather than pour them down the sink…. I’m also a big fan of the various pillots chassagnes and guy amiot’s have been sensational in my (admittedly limited) experience. In terms of red cdb, I love chassagne montrachets again. Indeed, if you were to rephrase your question to “if forced to the wines from one village in burgundy which would you choose?” then cm would be the only option for me. The cm reds have become a bit of a cult around here in general - there are really good ones made by the various pillots, Caroline morey and ramonet of course.

Very interesting to hear that.
I actually just bought 3x bottles of Guy Amiot Chassagne-Montrachet 2018 and 3x of Pillot CM 2016. The only thing that worries me in this case is that
the alcohol was a bit higher in the Amiot’s than some of the other bottles of the same year. Im glad to hear its a good producer.

So your choice of CM as the village of your choice is based on its offer of both white and reds (counting PY)?
What kind of producer is Pillot? Maybe I should try to find some more.

[Michael_P_P]

My 2nd go-to Beaune producer, also by far, is Michel Mallard. Please do not ask me why. It is a very personal choice and you have to trust me. He was chosen to be the wine-maker for Domaine d’Eugenie in 2006 by Chateaux Latour with good reasons. His 2nd debut vintage for CdV -Domaine D’Eugneir in 2007…was something specially and sadly I did not have a chance to try one. His own Domaine makes unbelievable QPR wines in Ladoix and A-Corton.

Thanks Peter for all the advice. I will save all of these producer names.
Mallard sounds interesting. Perhaps I will be able to find something here in Europe.
Which producers are your favorites, of all?

[dbailey]

Thank you!

Any villages and producers you especially like?

As Antoine noted, I like pycm (a lot!), mainly because you actually get to drink them rather than pour them down the sink…. I’m also a big fan of the various pillots chassagnes and guy amiot’s have been sensational in my (admittedly limited) experience. In terms of red cdb, I love chassagne montrachets again. Indeed, if you were to rephrase your question to “if forced to the wines from one village in burgundy which would you choose?” then cm would be the only option for me. The cm reds have become a bit of a cult around here in general - there are really good ones made by the various pillots, Caroline morey and ramonet of course.

Very interesting to hear that.
I actually just bought 3x bottles of Guy Amiot Chassagne-Montrachet 2018 and 3x of Pillot CM 2016. The only thing that worries me in this case is that
the alcohol was a bit higher in the Amiot’s than some of the other bottles of the same year. Im glad to hear its a good producer.

So your choice of CM as the village of your choice is based on its offer of both white and reds (counting PY)?
What kind of producer is Pillot? Maybe I should try to find some more.

Yes, if forced to choose one village that could cover both whites and reds, it has to be cm for me over corton or beaune. There’s more than one pillot! Jean-Marc and Paul both produce high quality whites and reds imho.

[David_Bu3ker]

Assuming I’m buying and haven’t won the lottery, Beaune. I’ve pretty much already chosen Beaune plus NSG as it is, due to price.

This is mostly where I am, though if $$ are not the driver…

[Peter_Chiu]

Michael…I am like all burgundy lovers. My favorites are of course, DRC in Vosne; Rousseau in Gervey - for his 3 bigs only - and Pierre Damoy since the mid-1990s. Roumier in Chambolle …etc… for the Nuits.

As I age. …my preference change in Nuits, the only reds I still could afford ( or willing to pay ) is Damoy and once in a while CdV by Domaine D’Eugenie. Like Howard, our taste change when we got matured…

[Peter_Chiu]

Nuits plus Montrachet would be ideal for me. I know that is cheating.

No cheating in Nuits please : : how about Nuits + Musigny - Blanc.

[Mattstolz]

Thanks. I am listening to both of your advice, Howard and Keith.

At the moment, I don’t really know what I prefer yet. So wouldn’t it be interesting to at least have an idea what the differences would be
between Volnay, Pommard etc, and villages in Côte de Nuits? I am one too, though, for recognizing that producers and their styles can do the
most impact on the wines, don’t get me wrong.

Along the lines of what Keith said, I am generally trying to look for good deals in Burgundy. Right now it happened to be Beaune. Partly because I listened
to Jasper Morris which spoke warmly more than once about Beaune. But also because I wanted to start somewhere.

I am, however as you suggested Howard, trying to buy more things from one producer. But it seems that producers generally own land in either Beaune or Nuits?

I’m not sure if you have any experiences with these producers, but in my last purchase (for example), I bought:

• Pernand, Pernand 1er Cru, Pernand Blanc from Domaine Rollin
• Pommard, Pommard 1er Cru, Volnay, Volnay 1er Cru & Mersault Blanc from Christophe Vaudoisey
• Chassagne-Montrachet Rouge, St Aubin 1er Cru from Domaine Larue.
• few other Chassagnes from other producers.

I will keep an eye out for interesting producers in Nuits and Beaune. But I will try to focus on good deals, where you don’t have to pay a fortune to
taste a sense of terroir and place. If you have to go bankrupt to do so, then it’s probably not for me. But I don’t believe Burgundy is or should be like that.

I will start looking more at some villages and producers in the Nuits.
Thank you for recommending some producers in MSD, Howard, appreciate it.

one really reliable producer that has land in both Nuits and Beaune is Joseph Drouhin. its not quite as sexy as the smaller houses that really specialize in one area or the other can be, but they own land all over the Cote d’Or and beyond into greater burgundy, farm it well, and craft really consistent wines from it. everything 1er cru and higher is Domaine wine, plus a lot of the wine that goes into the village bottlings as well. Their Clos des Mouches (Beaune), their 1er cru Chambolle-Musigny (nuits), and their Meursault Perrieres (blanc) are all among my favorite Burgundies.

Faiveley also owns a whole bunch of varied land in the Cote and farms it well. I find their bottlings to be SLIGHTLY less consistent than Drouhin, but thats mostly just because I think so highly of Drouhin.

[Peter_Chiu]

Mattstolz - Drouhin is getting more popular in Hong Kong - the next Dujac, perhaps, in the secondary market ?

[Mattstolz]

Mattstolz - Drouhin is getting more popular in Hong Kong - the next Dujac, perhaps, in the secondary market ?

I better start buying more now then.

it would surprise me if they are ever to Dujac level, they just make so much more wine. but the top bottlings? It still surprises me Mouches isnt more than it is.

[Keith_Levenberg]

It would never occur to me to describe Drouhin as attractively priced when they are consistently twice Jadot’s prices for equivalent wines, after a couple years trying to get away with a 3x multiple.

[Mattstolz]

It would never occur to me to describe Drouhin as attractively priced when they are consistently twice Jadot’s prices for equivalent wines, after a couple years trying to get away with a 3x multiple.

im not saying Jadot isnt. But Drouhin is still attractively priced compared to a lot of board favorite 1er crus.

[J.Vizuete]

And don’t forget Bernard Moreau’s reds in Chassagne…

Perhaps due to past experience, my love for white burgundy runs deeper than that for red. So I would be more than content for reds with Lafarge, D’angerville, Moreau, Pousse D’or, Drouhin Clos Des Mouches, Chandon Des Brailles, Comte Armand, not to mention Leroy if you desire to spend more $$$. But mine is an opinion without previously having been mesmerized by the greatest reds in the Cote de Nuits.

But the way I read the OP, one could choose nuits and still have Chablis, which for many might do the trick

[Peter_Chiu]

I agree with Keith that Drouhin wines are not attractive in North America.

His Musigny 2016 was at CA $1086.

His Amoureuses 2017 is at CA $753. CdBeze 2011 at CA $595 and 2012 at $ 627. You could still buy them…if you wish. Same for CdMouces at CA $170 for 2016, 2017 and 2018. Corotn - Bressandes at a whopping CA $ 330 for 2016 -which is similar price as his Charmes…