I'd like to hear from the old(er) timers

[Neal.Mollen]

Might have to pull this thread out of Wine Talk soon, sheesh! Gone off the rails over here! Come on, ‘older timers’ - back on target!

[M_Meer]

Gone off the rails over here! Come on, ‘older timers’ - back on target!

[John_Morris]

I am pretty sure Mozart would have struggled to write a sublime 4 minute pop song.

A point lost on so many people.

But imagine if he’d taken his hand to that!

Not sure I agree. I’m not that familiar with Mozart’s short pieces but Bach’s Sonatas and Partitas, not only as a set but individually, are remarkable.

Spotify

I was going to mention Beethoven’s bagatelles, but I was afraid that Todd would banish us to the Asylum for sure if I did that.

[Tom_G_l_a_s_g_o_w]

I am pretty sure Mozart would have struggled to write a sublime 4 minute pop song.

A point lost on so many people.

But imagine if he’d taken his hand to that!

Pop didn’t pay back then, he worked on commission.

[lleichtman]

As a relative newcomer to the scene, I’m curious to hear from those with much more experience than myself.

We all constantly hear about how great it was back in the day when you could buy a bottle of Lafite for the price of a hamburger or whatever. Even over the few years I’ve been into wine I’ve seen prices steadily creep upwards. Surely, many of us newer to the hobby feel a pang of jealousy hearing about the cases of back-vintage First Growth Bordeaux and Grand Cru Burgundy that was purchased on release for a pittance. A constant refrain from the more experienced among us seems to be “I miss those days.”

On the other hand, from what I understand, the overall quality at all price points is higher than it’s ever been. The wine consumer of today has more options than ever before. Opportunities abound to try wines from many areas that were all but inaccessible until recently. The online marketplace has also made it much easier to source old bottles. More and more producers are making wine in an environmentally conscious way.

So, were the old days all that they are cracked up to be, especially in comparison to today? Was it better to be experiencing wine decades ago, or is it getting better and better? I’m so curious to hear the opinions of those older and wiser than myself. Thanks!

Not necessarily better but different. Wines are better made now than 40+ years ago but sometimes, they are too clean needing some of the old dirt to make them appealing.

[Howard_Cooper]

Might have to pull this thread out of Wine Talk soon, sheesh! Gone off the rails over here! Come on, ‘older timers’ - back on target!

Kelly's Heroes - Oddball takes a rest, best scene of the movie

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

I suppose that’s a reminder I am familiar with at least one of Mozart’s short pieces.

Of course, he was no one-hit wonder on the pop scene.

https://youtu.be/yCjJyiqpAuU?t=18

Thank you…

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

The answer is Bill Watterson, for it is self-evident that all creative and artistic progress throughout human history built, slowly and unevenly, but inexorably, toward Calvin & Hobbes, and since BW’s retirement, we are now living in the inevitable decline that follows Peak Art.

My post of the year.

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

My head spins with all of these hierarchical/taxonomic impossibilities.

Would Michelangelo look at a Wheaties box as a piece of art? Who the fvck knows, and what is the point of the inquiry? (personally, I suspect he’d be more floored by the box itself than what is on it). Prince and Lennon (and, for that matter, Cyrus and Spears) made 4 minute pop songs for a living. They are qualitatively, quantitatively, and taxonomically different animals than Mozart and Beethoven and Monk (and I suppose, Fripp and eventually Zappa).

That’s not intended to be dismissive of Lennon or Prince; I am pretty sure Mozart would have struggled to write a sublime 4 minute pop song. They are just fundamentally different skills, and their respective work products represent fundamentally different achievements. You can marvel at both In My Life and Eine Kleine Nachtmusik without trying to put them in the same Greatest Hits category.

Making a sensible qualitative and hierarchical comparison of the worth of artists working in different media, towards different goals, esp. hundreds of years apart, requires a level of computational power (and spare time?) that I don’t have.

So I’ll ask you experts: who’s better, Stephen Foster or Mies van der Rohe? Rodin or Johnny Carson? Inquiring minds . . . aren’t really that interested.

Neal,

I love your posts, and if you’re not interested, then no worries.

But you’re fundamentally wrong about Prince.

Could he write a tremendous symphony. There’s little doubt about it if you look at his music, maybe he did and we haven’t seen them.

But Mozart wrote a ton of operas. And if you haven’t realized that Purple Rain is a modern opera, rather than a collection of four minute pop songs plus the title track at seven minutes. Then you should listen to the album.

It also contains some ridiculous musicianship for an early 20-something who played every single note of every instrument on the album.

But to suggest that he only wrote pop songs is just not really knowing Prince’s skill set.

And Monk, Fripp, Zappa, as well as Clapton would all be aware of what a talent he was.(To be fair, there’s tiny Zappa sample in several Prince tracks…so he’s also probably a fan of Frank Zappa.)

Mixing Cyrus or Spears in with Lennon and Prince is a joke, like suggesting that N-sync and Miles Davis somehow belong in the same sentence.

[Mel_Knox]

Billy Joel’s half brother conducts a symphony orchestra in Germany…so maybe Mahler could have written some catchy tunes about death. Musical talent is not always limited to one genre.

Did we decide if Tiny Tim was better than Brahms…I mean Brahms never got married on Johnny Carson. I am sure Mozart would have …if only…

[Neal.Mollen]

My head spins with all of these hierarchical/taxonomic impossibilities.

Would Michelangelo look at a Wheaties box as a piece of art? Who the fvck knows, and what is the point of the inquiry? (personally, I suspect he’d be more floored by the box itself than what is on it). Prince and Lennon (and, for that matter, Cyrus and Spears) made 4 minute pop songs for a living. They are qualitatively, quantitatively, and taxonomically different animals than Mozart and Beethoven and Monk (and I suppose, Fripp and eventually Zappa).

That’s not intended to be dismissive of Lennon or Prince; I am pretty sure Mozart would have struggled to write a sublime 4 minute pop song. They are just fundamentally different skills, and their respective work products represent fundamentally different achievements. You can marvel at both In My Life and Eine Kleine Nachtmusik without trying to put them in the same Greatest Hits category.

Making a sensible qualitative and hierarchical comparison of the worth of artists working in different media, towards different goals, esp. hundreds of years apart, requires a level of computational power (and spare time?) that I don’t have.

So I’ll ask you experts: who’s better, Stephen Foster or Mies van der Rohe? Rodin or Johnny Carson? Inquiring minds . . . aren’t really that interested.

Neal,

I love your posts, and if you’re not interested, then no worries.

But you’re fundamentally wrong about Prince.

Could he write a tremendous symphony. There’s little doubt about it if you look at his music, maybe he did and we haven’t seen them.

But Mozart wrote a ton of operas. And if you haven’t realized that Purple Rain is a modern opera, rather than a collection of four minute pop songs plus the title track at seven minutes. Then you should listen to the album.

It also contains some ridiculous musicianship for an early 20-something who played every single note of every instrument on the album.

But to suggest that he only wrote pop songs is just not really knowing Prince’s skill set.

And Monk, Fripp, Zappa, as well as Clapton would all be aware of what a talent he was.(To be fair, there’s tiny Zappa sample in several Prince tracks…so he’s also probably a fan of Frank Zappa.)

Mixing Cyrus or Spears in with Lennon and Prince is a joke, like suggesting that N-sync and Miles Davis somehow belong in the same sentence.

No one is denying that Prince was an enormous talent. Or at least I’m not. Love his music. Admire his songwriting. Could he have written a symphony? Yeah I’m sure he could. Not certain it would have held up against Beethoven or Dvorak but we’ll never know. That wasn’t his genre.

I do know that Botticelli could have medaled in pole vault. Given a tardis.

[Dan_Kravitz]

Have we set the record for thread drift?

Dan Kravitz

[Dav3_Dyr0ff]

Have we set the record for thread drift?

Dan Kravitz

Drifting just isn’t the same now as it was in the old days.

- YouTube

[Carter_Pelham]

Have we set the record for thread drift?

Dan Kravitz

Drifting just isn’t the same now as it was in the old days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzfmfgujFD0

Alright but which is better, a Prince symphony or 52 minutes of screeching tires?

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

Thread drift?

Ok. In a world where generational talents exist in any age, I prefer drinking from the age where I can afford the very best wines, rather than choose from an ocean of well made. Well made is for pasta.

Thankfully, all of the greatest musicians are still affordable for me. For wines, that’s no longer true and sitting around pretending that many well made options is a superior existence to drinking great wines routinely seems crazy to me.

“Well Mozart’s Requiem is $900/listen, but you can get so many good records nowdays. No, Bach is $2500/listen, don’t you know that Bach is better than everybody. And Philip Glass just started charging $1000/listen, so Bach is really a fair price at $2500…but there’s a music store down the road that will play you 22 notes for $90.”

Thanks, no.

But if nothing else that’s why our pricing is what it is. (Not claiming to be Mozart-like)

[Tom_G_l_a_s_g_o_w]

Have we set the record for thread drift?

Dan Kravitz

Drifting just isn’t the same now as it was in the old days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzfmfgujFD0

Alright but which is better, a Prince symphony or 52 minutes of screeching tires?

Prince is a bad comparison, Philip Glass has the repetitiveness to compete.

[Mel_Knox]

Marcus
There is no question that the 70s were a great era if you wanted to drink great wines and not go bankrupt. Indeed it was pretty darn good for tasty reasonably priced wines. Someday when we get together I ll tell you some stories and depress the crap out ofyou.
I imagine the 60s were even better.

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

Taylor Swift and Miley Cyrus got tossed out as garbage in this thread, but clearly they are great at what they do (generate fame).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOwblaKmyVw

I’m mostly agreeing with you but it’s more than just “generating fame”.

Not the greatest ever, but Dolly Parton owns that piece of turf.

-Al

Mozart, Prince, Zappa, Monk, Bach, and Davis all write their own music.

Britney Spears and Miley Cyrus are cool enough, but neither are within a 100 miles of the body of compositional work that the musicians in the first sentence have.

Successful and talented performing artists they are, generational talents they are not.

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

Marcus
There is no question that the 70s were a great era if you wanted to drink great wines and not go bankrupt. Indeed it was pretty darn good for tasty reasonably priced wines. Someday when we get together I ll tell you some stories and depress the crap out ofyou.
I imagine the 60s were even better.

Ha! That would be great. Though I still buy Pascal Agrapart’s current wines because I consumed so much of it in 1999 dollars, $23 for the NV(Sept Cru now) and $55 for the Avizoise(I feel that I owe him money still). I’ll bet that similar wines in the 70s were even less.

[Alan_Rath]

I am pretty sure Mozart would have struggled to write a sublime 4 minute pop song.

I can’t help but think Mozart would dash off Eine Kleine Rapmusik pretty darn quickly