“Just sell it all via Crurated” is a solution, of sorts (until Crurated isn’t available). I think you’re missing the forest for the trees and ignoring downsides and friction. It’s a very consultant oriented solution being proposed as a solution to an industry of farmers with small holdings.
I didn’t talk about correlation or causality. Neither does the definition of Veblen good, “a good for which demand increases as the price increases.” C/C was your contribution.
And I haven’t made any claims about “every” buyer. You, for example, are a long-time buyer, I would never suggest you do it to be a fashion leader. I think the large majority of berserkers are similar.
But there is an increasing number of a new type of burg-buyers, especially as it becomes more expensive, exclusive, and luxury-categoried. People who would scoff at the idea of drinking a $50 Lachaux burg, but are suddenly interested when it hits $1000. And there’s nothing laughable about it.
1 Like
and yet, many are already doing a version of this. in my example crurated is a proxy for “some business that has inserted itself to offer a non-traditional option.” they aren’t the first or last.
i’m not sure how you reconcile the facts on the ground with your seeming rejection of the entire idea.
my gut is that we generally agree, just differ on the details. domaines used to have fewer options, now they have more. to me, that’s progress. does it end today? doubtful.
1 Like
Yaacov, my argument of “change will come slowly and people aren’t taking into account the friction in the process” is slightly at odds with your characterization of it.
Have a look at Burghound or Vinous.
1 Like
which people and what friction specifically? if you acknowledge that the process has already begun and is fully normalized (adoption by some domaines and customers) where are the remaining barriers?
2 Likes
Luckily I didn’t.
Straw man is a grand tradition of Internet discussion boards!
i think it is important to take a closer look at why this dtc maximization paradigm is potentially a sustainable practice for someone like lachaux and not for others. in the case of his aligote, maybe he was selling it for $30-40 ex cellar to a private client or importer; it was originally hitting retailers for $60ish and restaurants for $120 give or take (i still saw some on lists this past summer in sweden for ~$100). if he only makes a couple thousand bottles of it and for some reason they start selling for ~$1k, a 30x gain is most definitely an incredibly strong incentive to sell direct. any potential for adverse downstream conditions that may affect relationships with importers, distributors, and consumers is clearly outweighed by such a huge return. not to mention since the quantities are so small to begin with, negative impact is naturally constrained and mitigated. this is a very distinct market reality that simply does not exist for most producers, even at the higher end of the spectrum. i think even for many well regarded producers, going mostly or entirely with a curated style dtc model will alienate plenty of consumers and in effect create a lot of bag holders. look at how many cali/or lists there are whose wines wind up cheaper at retail or auction than at release. there are only a select few that are in fact retaining a higher secondary market value. when this happens, where is the incentive for the consumer to remain locked into a subscription? if any of you read some other forums such as lpv, domestic consumers are already looking at rising ex cellar prices for less than speculative domaines with much irritation.
Ok, new subject: when top Burgundy domains switch to a DTC model for some or all of their sales, will it be good or bad for us Berserkers?
Sadly it seems like the answer is impossible to guess at. So much depends on how each producer chooses to go to market. So there will be winners and losers, but probably the only thing that won’t change is that rich people willing to pay up for the bottles they want will get them.
2 Likes
It is just not true that “it will not be a burden” to go DTC just because some functions can be outsourced. At all.
1 Like
Trick question. Berserker’s Razor: no matter the outcome Berserkers will complain.
5 Likes
This isn’t a serious argument - you’re making maximalist claims in various directions with no evidence for support. The idea that DTC in burgundy is “fully normalized” because of Crurated and Lachaux’s negoce project is not a reasonable claim.
1 Like
For the majority of berserkers, quite bad!
Probably true, sadly.
But I will fantasize about the wonderful world of Todd’s Berserker DTC business (doesn’t exist now, but who knows???!!) in which he contracts with top Burgundians to handle sale, service and distribution of wines to us here. Clearly the most devoted, knowledgeable and good looking lovers of wine deserve no less!
2 Likes
Aren’t there already examples of this? Kermit Lynch, for example. K&L does a fair amount of direct importing and sales to its customers. In many cases, their prices are actually higher than 3-tier prices in areas they don’t serve.
no it isn’t. but thankfully my posts here (and i reckon others’) were never presented as such. merely observations of the current landscape and speculation as to what might happen in the future. to my mind, none of which are controversial, but reasonable folks might disagree.
if you’re looking for an argument, serious or otherwise, you won’t get one from me.
as for lachaux, once again, i didn’t mention that. i don’t know anything about it.
indeed, but to me, those are variations on the current retail paradigm. not the full 3-tier, but kermit and KL ultimately need to allocate which brings in the misaligned incentives i outlined above.
1 Like
Ah yes, “I’m just asking questions”.
it is. what are you doing here ? didn’t know you were a wine dork lime me LOL.
dork in more than 1 way! Hope you’re doing well. Seen Giovanni lately?