I Know Drinking Windows are Subjective But ...

[Rich_Brown]

I also appreciate the comprehensive drinkability chart on the Carlisle website. I have not found similar information on the Bedrock website, and I do wish it were available there.
I realize that drinkability windows are subjective and perhaps not extremely accurate, but they are much better than nothing. I hope that Bedrock will start providing that information on their website.

That would be awesome!

[Douglas_Breen]

Joel Peterson (Ravenswood) waited on a lot of wine until he thought they were ready to sell recently. I do not know the type of storage he utilized. I never would imagine a 1987 Ravenswood Sonoma County Zinfandel would be going strong in 2021 (and loved it). I can’t help to think storage has such effect on drink dates and how variable conditions can be.

[K.C0LBURN]

One of my first intros to Napa was at Elyse winery. Ray also waited a long, long time to release his Cabernet (I opened my last 2003 Morisoli in 2020, and it had held up very well).

I can appreciate the challenge in not knowing someone’s palate, but I also value insight from the winemaker on where they think the wine is at to help in calibrating where my wines are likely to be in their lives.

I’ve got some beautiful 2017 Paso Robles Grenache that is totally closed right now, but a number of my 2013 Napa Cabs are finally turning the corner on opening back up. Kinda depends on “where is the wine now” vs. “what flavors/textures do I want out of this wine and when is it most likely to have that.”

I don’t feel too guilty about drinking my big Lodi Zins young, but I try to give my Oakville Cab as much cellar time as possible until I’m dying of curiosity…

[Rodrigo_B]

Joel Peterson (Ravenswood) waited on a lot of wine until he thought they were ready to sell recently. I do not know the type of storage he utilized. I never would imagine a 1987 Ravenswood Sonoma County Zinfandel would be going strong in 2021 (and loved it). I can’t help to think storage has such effect on drink dates and how variable conditions can be.

I’m always appreciative of producers that have taken on the risk to age their inventory to sell when they think it’s ready to drink.

It’s a huge financial burden and not an easy gamble to undertake. As a consumer I love that mentality and seek to support producers doing that like Joel, Larry from Tercero, Terry and Frances from Kalin, and many Rioja producers to name a few. An uphill battle for sure, but one that I am infinitely thankful that they’ve undertaken.

[Chris_Foley]

If it’s available on a retail shelf, it’s ready to drink. What’s this about drinking subjective windows?

[lleichtman]

Joel Peterson (Ravenswood) waited on a lot of wine until he thought they were ready to sell recently. I do not know the type of storage he utilized. I never would imagine a 1987 Ravenswood Sonoma County Zinfandel would be going strong in 2021 (and loved it). I can’t help to think storage has such effect on drink dates and how variable conditions can be.

I’m always appreciative of producers that have taken on the risk to age their inventory to sell when they think it’s ready to drink.

It’s a huge financial burden and not an easy gamble to undertake. As a consumer I love that mentality and seek to support producers doing that like Joel, Larry from Tercero, Terry and Frances from Kalin, and many Rioja producers to name a few. An uphill battle for sure, but one that I am infinitely thankful that they’ve undertaken.

Which is why I buy Lopez de Heredia which is right now selling 2009 Tondonia.

[Keith_Levenberg]

Unless the winery has been in business and making the same wines long enough to see them age, peak, and decline, how are they supposed to offer a non-BS drinking window?

[David_Bu3ker]

Joel Peterson (Ravenswood) waited on a lot of wine until he thought they were ready to sell recently. I do not know the type of storage he utilized. I never would imagine a 1987 Ravenswood Sonoma County Zinfandel would be going strong in 2021 (and loved it). I can’t help to think storage has such effect on drink dates and how variable conditions can be.

I’m always appreciative of producers that have taken on the risk to age their inventory to sell when they think it’s ready to drink.

It’s a huge financial burden and not an easy gamble to undertake. As a consumer I love that mentality and seek to support producers doing that like Joel, Larry from Tercero, Terry and Frances from Kalin, and many Rioja producers to name a few. An uphill battle for sure, but one that I am infinitely thankful that they’ve undertaken.

Didn’t JP buy back the Ravenswood library/inventory from Constellation in 2019 or so? I don’t think it was a “hold until it’s ready” situation.

[Rich_Brown]

Joel Peterson (Ravenswood) waited on a lot of wine until he thought they were ready to sell recently. I do not know the type of storage he utilized. I never would imagine a 1987 Ravenswood Sonoma County Zinfandel would be going strong in 2021 (and loved it). I can’t help to think storage has such effect on drink dates and how variable conditions can be.

I’m always appreciative of producers that have taken on the risk to age their inventory to sell when they think it’s ready to drink.

It’s a huge financial burden and not an easy gamble to undertake. As a consumer I love that mentality and seek to support producers doing that like Joel, Larry from Tercero, Terry and Frances from Kalin, and many Rioja producers to name a few. An uphill battle for sure, but one that I am infinitely thankful that they’ve undertaken.

Didn’t JP buy back the Ravenswood library/inventory from Constellation in 2019 or so? I don’t think it was a “hold until it’s ready” situation.

Yep, im pretty sure thats correct on the Ravenswood wines. Still a pretty cool opportunity though!

And I agree that it’s amazing when winemakers hold back wine until they feel its ready to drink. That can NOT be easy to do from a financial standpoint.

[David_Bu3ker]

And per the “subjective” in the OP, what is “ready to drink” or “at peak”?

[Philip_N_Jones]

Yes, it is guesswork, but guesswork from the guy (or gal) who made the wine is better than nothing.

[Ron_Slye]

I like that some producers will post tasting notes on their websites periodically for older vintages, to get a glimpse at what is drinking well now, what you should continue to hold, etc. But again, drinking windows can be very subjective based what stage in the evolution of a wine you like.

Yes this is what I find most helpful. Periodic check-ins by the winemaker are quite useful. This is in effect what I use CT for – tracking bottles I have to determine when I might want to open the next bottle.

[Nathan_Smyth]

Also stating ideal drinking window on bottles might deter some consumers in effect losing sales. A big majority of the world has no interest in aging wines and even owning a cellar. They want to buy then drink now.

Someone with many years of experience in the bidness told me that industry studies indicated that something like 95% [or 99%???] of all bottles of wine are opened within about 30 minutes of having been purchased at retail [or at restaurants???].

And at the other extreme, I seem to recall, from a while back, David Schildknecht having declared that trying to anticipate a cellared wine’s peak drinking window was so impossibly difficult that he refused to do it any longer.

Personally, I seem to have stumbled upon the hobby of cellaring table wines [anything this side of about $30], in the hopes that 5 or 10 or 15 years of rest might make them even more interesting.

It probably won’t happen - I imagine the chinese hypersonic EMPW-tipped cruise missiles will long since have taken out our electrical grid before then - but it’s fun to imagine [that a table wine might magically turn into something special].

I guess the key there would be to invest in passive [root] cellars.

[alan_weinberg]

Also stating ideal drinking window on bottles might deter some consumers in effect losing sales. A big majority of the world has no interest in aging wines and even owning a cellar. They want to buy then drink now.

Someone with many years of experience in the bidness told me that industry studies indicated that something like 95% [or 99%???] of all bottles of wine are opened within about 30 minutes of having been purchased at retail [or at restaurants???]
And at the other extreme, I seem to recall, from a while back, David Schildknecht having declared that trying to anticipate a cellared wine’s peak drinking window was so impossibly difficult that he refused to do it any longer.

Personally, I seem to have stumbled upon the hobby of cellaring table wines [anything this side of about $30], in the hopes that 5 or 10 or 15 years of rest might make them even more interesting.

It probably won’t happen - I imagine the chinese hypersonic EMPW-tipped cruise missiles will long since have taken out our electrical grid before then - but it’s fun to imagine [that a table wine might magically turn into something special].

I guess the key there would be to invest in passive [root] cellars.

I find myself in agreement. Also, one person’s peak drinkability is another’s way too early or late timing.

The three day test, to me, speaks only of how the wine tasted after three days and nothing about its ability to age and develop.

But the endless speculation about unprovable assertions is fun.

[David_Bu3ker]

Actual David Schildknecht quote: “The wine will always have the last word.”

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

Anybody disagree?

Yes only because I’ve yet to find a producer/retailer that isn’t biased in wanting you do drink the wine asap, so you come back for more. The windows they give when they do give them are typically extremely early and useless.

“This will improve with some cellar time, but drinkable now. 2021-2070”

Any wine that’s going to last 50 years is not going to be in its prime right out of the gate.

On the flip side I have yet to experience a winery giving a properly short drinking window when appropriate. I’ve been buying from Navarro for years and every time I call them to ask about ideal drinking windows for a 2015 Deep End for example, they say something like I’m holding mine for another decade. But their wines don’t have enough acid to hold for decades and peak at about 6-8 years and then decline pretty quickly.

I don’t know. I recommended 2004-2007 as being the only vintages of our wines that are in an open window and drinking well. We also routinely tell people that they should open a bottle young but that Whistling Ridge routinely wants 10 years in the bottle before it gets into maturity. That is off putting for some consumers as well.


I would +1 that we like the wines young, and probably a good deal more than most consumers.

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

I find that most winemakers recommend much earlier drinking than most WBer types would. I’m not sure if it’s their perspective constantly trying the wines very young, or a bit of self interest getting customers to open bottles, or what.

I used to ask winemakers that question a lot but over time have mostly stopped.

It’s funny that we think of self interest in having our wines consumed earlier. The business math is definitely the other direction.

My worries about people buying too much Goodfellow, having never tried the wines are real, but a year or two back Chris James emailed me that he was concerned that 12.5 cases of Goodfellow was too much. Chris and his partner drank a bottle of Goodfellow a week at the time(so they know the wines). So I pointed out that at 52 bottles a year, he had a 3 year supply of wines he knows have 10 years in the cellar(or more). He really needed to buy a lot more Goodfellow to get to good likelihod of a “mature” bottle(or slow down consumption, but I did not suggest that). Though I suspect that with Violin, Kelley Fox, Vincent, etc. that he has a lot of options.

Cellaring is a crazy commitment, but I love digging through bottles in the cellar, tracking them, and arranging them. I don’t think 12 cases for a proucer is necessary, but I really do wish that I had bought some of my favorites in bigger quantities.

[Jason_T]

Joel Peterson (Ravenswood) waited on a lot of wine until he thought they were ready to sell recently. I do not know the type of storage he utilized. I never would imagine a 1987 Ravenswood Sonoma County Zinfandel would be going strong in 2021 (and loved it). I can’t help to think storage has such effect on drink dates and how variable conditions can be.

I’m always appreciative of producers that have taken on the risk to age their inventory to sell when they think it’s ready to drink.

It’s a huge financial burden and not an easy gamble to undertake. As a consumer I love that mentality and seek to support producers doing that like Joel, Larry from Tercero, Terry and Frances from Kalin, and many Rioja producers to name a few. An uphill battle for sure, but one that I am infinitely thankful that they’ve undertaken.

Didn’t JP buy back the Ravenswood library/inventory from Constellation in 2019 or so? I don’t think it was a “hold until it’s ready” situation.

David, I have the same understanding you do.

[Zoltan_PM]

, for others, young wines are what they enjoy.

Off-topic, but I’m this way about tequila. Much prefer the younger ones — a lot of unique flavors and aromas, most of which get sidelined once it ages in barrels.