Sure, maybe it was a new edition book and that was older text? Or maybe they are just wrong! 
I donât remember ever seeing a Schaefer auction Himmelreich, reinfocing the view you mention.
Actuall one can see on the maps Weinlagen how difficult it is to speak about quality. Domprobst looks much more homegeneous than Himmelreich. I would expect some parcels of Himmelreich to give the same quality like Domprobst, others not.
Between Domprobst and Himmelreich, how much is this based on the different qualities of the two vineyards and how much based on where in the vineyards one has holding? For example, JJ Prum has the best part of the Wehlener Sonnenuhr (near the sun dial).
So much depends on the parcel. J.J. PrĂŒm has the well-placed vines around the sundial of Zeltinger Sonnenuhr, too.
But they lost some very well placed vines in the Zeltinger Sonnenuhr to Selbach in the reorganization.
Yes, it was Rotlay.
Yup. And Katherina Prum was not happy about it!
I wouldnât blame her. Itâs disappointing to lose a parcel of old vines in a prime site, such as Rotlay, because of the Flurbereinigung. The PrĂŒms were not in favor of this measure in Zeltingen, or now in Wehlen.
Well I guess Shaefer having 100 plots across both means they likely have both good and bad in both.
Agreed.
I do find that when we discuss which of two vineyards is better (whether in Germany, Burgundy, whatever), we think of it too much on a macro level and not enough on a micro level. Most of the vineyards we have today are political creations with some parcels better than others. Also, some vintners have older vines than others and different producers may have different clones. Thus, we have situations where Prumâs Wehlener Sonnenuhr is probably his best vineyard while Selbachâs Zeltinger Sonnenuhr is probably his best vineyard. Or where Caillerets is considered by many to be the best vineyard in Volnay, although not really for DâAngerville. Or similarly, Von Hovelâs best vineyard is probably his Hutte, rather than the more famous Schartzhofberger.
I agree, Howard. As for Zeltinger Sonnenuhr, Markus Molitor has prime old-vine parcels, and J.J. PrĂŒm has the plot around the sundial. Max von Kunow of Weingut von Hövel is the sole owner of Oberemmeler HĂŒtte and Kanzemer Hörecker. Yet he owns an excellent old-vine plot in the original Scharzhofberg, as well as vineyards in the former Scharzberg, which is now a part of the expanded Scharzhofberg.
Ultimately as Howard implies, the wine trumps the vineyard.
Do experienced German wine fans try wines from unknown producers in known vineyards, I canât say I do other than maybe an odd curiosity.
Huh? Do you mean producer trumps vineyard?
Well not really, the producer might have a poor plot, itâs not quite like burgundy is it, vineyards of the Middle mosel at least are so much more multifaceted, except the largest in Burgundy.
Then your statement makes even less sense. The wine comes from the vineyard, wherever that vineyard may be. How can the wine trump the vineyard without the influence of an outstanding producer?
Ok, forget it then.
Well no. I am actually curious as to what you mean.
Ok, Iâll rephrase later.
Sure. But it is often dissapointing.