How we taste wine: the contribution of aroma (does the glass really matter)

[john_stimson]

@Alan Rath

@john stimson

I think the article is basically correct, but don’t forget that the shape of the glass has a lot to do with how the wine is delivered into your mouth and throat, which may have a lot to do with how the aromatics (and limited taste sensations) play out. a glass that delivers a small amount of wine into the very front of your mouth through a nearly closed mouth will give you something different from a larger glass that delivers wine to more of your mouth through wider lip opening, carrying some aromatics with it…

John,
Greg pretty much said it all, in particular the point about how liquid emerges from a glass regardless of its shape below the rim. If you haven’t seen this thread, here’s a link to one of my posts that illustrates how unimportant glass shape is. It’s a lot like the dam holding back a lake; the shape of the lake, the depth of the water, the contour of the dam below the rim - none of that matters as the water is pouring over the lip of the dam.

TN: Clos des Papes 2001 - Same wine, four different glasses, 180ml pours, 14%vol - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers

I’ll read the thread when not at work, and when I’m able to give a more intelligent answer (none of mine have been intelligent so far). For me, I think there’s a definite difference between glasses, and types of wine, although nothing like what Riedel claims. I think most of the wine experience is olfactory, from all directions. I think the taste of awine from a glass relates to, yes, the wine going into your mouth, but also what hits your nose at the same time, and enters your mouth with the wine. the non-liquid parts of taking a sip of wine are drastically different between a burgundy bowl and a champagne flute, and I think that’s the biggest difference experienced between glasses. (If this sounds differrent from what I said above, then it is. I changed my mind a bit when I thought about it.)

[Alan_Rath]

@john stimson

I think most of the wine experience is olfactory, from all directions. I think the taste of a wine from a glass relates to, yes, the wine going into your mouth, but also what hits your nose at the same time, and enters your mouth with the wine.

No doubt that sense of smell is a large part of taste, the referenced article doesn’t disagree with that. What’s interesting is their conclusion that the much larger component of taste-influencing aroma comes from the retronasal effect, and even that not so much from just swishing/chewing wine in your mouth, but from the act of exhaling a breath. If that’s true, then glass shape is even further down the line of being an important factor in the actual taste of a wine.

In the end, there’s a lot of psychology to the perception of wine, from glass, to label, to environment. It’s something personal to everyone, but I like having some real physics/physiology to fall back on.

[Anton_D]

@Alan Rath

@john stimson

I think most of the wine experience is olfactory, from all directions. I think the taste of a wine from a glass relates to, yes, the wine going into your mouth, but also what hits your nose at the same time, and enters your mouth with the wine.

No doubt that sense of smell is a large part of taste, the referenced article doesn’t disagree with that. What’s interesting is their conclusion that the much larger component of taste-influencing aroma comes from the retronasal effect, and even that not so much from just swishing/chewing wine in your mouth, but from the act of exhaling a breath. If that’s true, then glass shape is even further down the line of being an important factor in the actual taste of a wine.

In the end, there’s a lot of psychology to the perception of wine, from glass, to label, to environment. It’s something personal to everyone, but I like having some real physics/physiology to fall back on.

Have you noticed if you taste wine before you exhale?

I think I would say, before, during, and after.

Tonight, I will try holding my breath as I bring up the glass and sip and see if it changes my perceptions.

My current opinion, since I like to do a little of that wine snob “sucking through my lips as I taste” is maybe that is also something that might be a bigger deal to me than to others. Trying it without makes a difference to me, as well.

[Everett_Bandman]

My experience is that the shape and type of container I drink a wine from does clearly effect the taste I perceive. That being said, I think that the idea that a wine has a best shaped container that its tasted from is marketing. Whats interesting in this thread is how science can be used to support or debunk both points of view and shows its limitation when applied to human awareness and experience.

[john_stimson]

@Alan Rath

@john stimson

I think most of the wine experience is olfactory, from all directions. I think the taste of a wine from a glass relates to, yes, the wine going into your mouth, but also what hits your nose at the same time, and enters your mouth with the wine.

No doubt that sense of smell is a large part of taste, the referenced article doesn’t disagree with that. What’s interesting is their conclusion that the much larger component of taste-influencing aroma comes from the retronasal effect, and even that not so much from just swishing/chewing wine in your mouth, but from the act of exhaling a breath. If that’s true, then glass shape is even further down the line of being an important factor in the actual taste of a wine.

In the end, there’s a lot of psychology to the perception of wine, from glass, to label, to environment. It’s something personal to everyone, but I like having some real physics/physiology to fall back on.

Now that I’ve had a chance to read things in more detail and practice a bit, I think the retro-nasal thing is correct. we actually do close off our airflow when we put something inour mouth and swallow, so we don’t choke, then exhale, which then allows us to “taste”. None of this is affected by the sine glass. However, that’s too narrow of a focus for the wine experience. We all smell the wine before, and as we get ready to take a sip, and just before we take a sip. this is a major part of the experience of tasting a wine, and I think the part that is very clearly affected by what type/shape of glass that you have.

[Daniel_McIntosh]

I don’t have the time to read everyone’s contributions here but I must state the obvious: drinking wine is like having sex: so much more goes into it than the act itself!

[Scott_G_r_u_n_e_r]

I’m sure I have said this on several other discussions of the same topic…

First of all, the argument about trying the difference from a shot glass or a styro cup or a thick glass water goblet are all silly arguments.

Of course there is a difference between these and a decent wine glass.

A good wine stem consists of a thin, cut rim, a bowl big enough to swirl the wine a bit- bigger than the opening at the top (i.e. a classic tulip/taper style bowl, bigger for reds, smaller for more delicate wines or whites), and the top should big enough to fit your full schnozz in when sipping the wine.

Beyond that all of these minute little variations are just pure marketing crap in my opinion. And yes, I have done some taste tests.

You can flame away, say I have the palate of a yak, tell me I am a luddite, whatever you want. However you want to justify wasting all that extra money on $100 a piece stems of 17 different varieties is up to you. But I am not buying it. I’d rather buy decent, but affordable multi-purpose stems and spend a few extra bucks on wine.

[Chuck_Anderson]

@B i l l Z h a n g

There are two types of people: those who say stemware doesn’t matter and those who know how to taste wine.

There’s the other two types too: those for whom this is an empirical question, and those for whom it’s first and foremost a analytical matter.

I don’t really understand the latter. To me the experience is primary, and theory is the servant: its job is to try and explain the experience.

[B_i_l_l_Z_h_a_n_g]

@Chuck Anderson

@B i l l Z h a n g

There are two types of people: those who say stemware doesn’t matter and those who know how to taste wine.

There’s the other two types too: those for whom this is an empirical question, and those for whom it’s first and foremost a analytical matter.

I don’t really understand the latter. To me the experience is primary, and theory is the servant: its job is to try and explain the experience.

Careful, you don’t want the hyperanalysts to believe you’re guilty of confirmation bias.

[dteng]

(Sigh)
Maybe Alan will leave the beer/wine bong at home for our next offline…