When visiting wineries I often hear talk about how the winemaking facility is built to support the vineyard with dedicated fermenters for each different block, the importance of gravity flow, how much control their facility provides them, etc. This got me thinking about how much all of this dedicated equipment and customized design of these facilities actually contribute to better wines vs. how much is just marketing hype or owners wanting to have fancy facilities to show off. There are plenty of amazing wines that are made at custom crush facilities, so it’s certainly possible to make great wine at a shared facility.
Do you all have a view on whether having your own winery / winemaking facility actually leads to improved quality of wines? Are there other reasons that wineries invest in their own facilities (e.g. over a certain scale it makes more financial sense)?
As you said, great wine is made at custom crush facilities and shared wineries. At some point, it makes sense financially, but I’d argue there’s a minimal difference in quality. This assumes that the shared facility has all of the “right” equipment, etc.
Being biased toward dedicated facility/equipment, I think it really matters most when conditions are difficult. Timing and flexibility are a real asset. If there is a place to ferment everything at the same time and no processing bottlenecks, then either situation should work similarly given equivalent conditions within the facility.
However, I can think of vintages like 1989, 2004 or 2011 when rain/rot or heat/dessication called for prompt action. There were dedicated facilities that had to compromise logistics (namely tank turnover and processing limitations) who made wines that were truly a testament to compromise. I suspect it becomes more challenging in a shared facility, having heard of long lines of grapes waiting simply to be processed in 2011.
Microbiological considerations are a separate issue that will undoubtedly be debated.
Another factor that nobody talks about is having the option to press a red wine all day long, fractionating and doing blending trials to find the sweet spot between free run and a given press fraction. I have been told that this would not be tolerated in a shared facility. I know people with dedicated facilities that would not consider employing this ‘frivolous’ use of time. For me this is a critical tool for optimizing the wine. It is not marketing.
As Fred alludes to, being able to ferment all your grapes at one time (without rolling tanks) is second to none. Frivolity at the press comes with being the Grand Poobah. Ultimately, it’s good to be King.
Fred brings up great points. Shared places can have back ups on the sorting line, at the press, where ever critical works needs to be done in a timely fashion. Not to mention different levels of hygiene with the various tenants (remember sharing a house or apartment with people? It can be like that…). And it’s true, if you want to slow press some whites for 24 hours, most shared spaces just can’t do that unless you bring in your own press. Even then, would they let you? Is there even enough power to run all the equipment at the same time?
That said, fancy estate places can have equipment break, can have too much to process or press in a day, can essentially have all kinds of their own issues and maybe not the camaraderie of shared spaces. Every set up has pros and cons.
Bottom line - you can raise an exceptional family in a rented house. It all comes down to what you’re trying to do and how you want to go about things. I’m good in shared spaces because I don’t need lots of equipment and I truly work off the principle that the grapes are everything. I could make terrific wine from great grapes in my garage (and I’ve done so). Show me a musician playing an instrument, don’t show me their effects pedals and amps and gizmos.
As Fred so eloquently stated, its mainly about room to explore and do the necessary “experimentation” that custom crush facilities in my experience would not tolerate due to timing issues with other clients.
At our shared space in Napa we like to employ extanded skin contact on most of our reds for up to 45 days after post fermentation, sometimes longer. This can lock up precious tank space for the facility. Luckily we use small fermentors so i can do as I please but the facility is usually done pressing off by November while I sometimes will be pressing off at Christmas. This detail usually gets the cellarmaster/host wineries eyes to roll back in his head!
Having your own facility gives winemakers the freedom and room without having to be on someone else’s schedules.
If you have a little shack and a few plastic tubs, you can make wine and be in complete control at all times. Maybe the wine will be good. But maybe if you had access to a shared facility you’d have more options and perhaps, better wine. Who knows?
Alternatively you can have a great place with all the latest equipment and let it go to hell.
I think it all depends on the resources the owner both has and needs. If the owner can meet all of his or her needs with the resources he or she has, then I don’t see how it’s not better for them to own their own. The facility doesn’t make the wine. It offers, or doesn’t offer, options.
But there can be problems if you’re stretched. I know a few little winemakers in Spain who have their own places but then they had problems with bacteria and didn’t have the resources to take adequate corrective action.
It is difficult to separate marketing angles from true production issues - especially in a forum such as this. It reminds me of how cooperage houses that control their wood supply and age it themselves in specific locations are going to talk about that while cooperage houses that purchase aged stave wood from many places talk about their special toasting methods, etc. when trying to attract buyers. Each of those facets matter to varying degrees. Bottom line is consistency and utility for the grape material and winery style.
There appears to be enough variation within ‘owned’ and within ‘shared’ facility situations that there is not a better or worse setup in all cases/circumstances. Each can have its own set of issues that are unique to its own idiosyncrasies. Potential strengths and weaknesses have been identified for each situation.
Marketing will put a filter and spin on just about anything after that.
I have worked in both types of set ups, and there are a lot of different considerations. For us having a onsite winery was key to how we produce wine. The main bottleneck in AV is trucking, my winery is on site and we take delivery from the tractor with no truck involved. This opens up way more possibilities on pick dates as there not dictated by trucking. The trucked fruit never arrives in the same condition and is more beat up with juice in the bottom of the bin. Trucking also messes with temperature parameters. We pick at night for trucked fruit we sell, its not that cold at 10pm so the fruit is not that cold, but it does arrive early in the am. Morning picks are what I prefer and were usually stating 6:45am and done by 8-9am picking and done processing by 9-10am (for PN anyway). Fruit hits the fermentor in the 40’s. If you morning pick then truck the fruit is traveling thru the warm sunny part of the day.
Were also doing wild alcohol and ml ferments trying to use the microflora and fona we have on the property (vineyard and winery) to complete the fermentations. You can do uninoculated ferments in a shared facility but I don’t think you will get the same results.
I have 100% fermentor capacity for PN so we never flip a tank. Were also doing 21-30+ days on the skins with partial whole clusters. Both those things can always be done at a shared facility. All PN is 1 ton or less lots, more work yes, more fermentors yes, more blending options yes.
As mentioned above I love hanging out at the basket press making the press cut with a long slow press cycle. It may take up 2-4 hours of pressing after cleaning and loading so 2 press loads a day is all we have ever done. Not the most efficient time wise but the quality is better IMO.
Most shared facility’s don’t (and should not) let you work with the wine due to workers compensation and liability issues. If your not an employee of a facility you should only be relegated to issuing work orders and doing blending in a office room from pulled samples. I know thats not always the case but still your not usually sanitizing, sorting, pumping, forklift driving, setting press cycles, etc.
I believe the best wines show time and place. I believe the best way to do that is only working with an onsite winery and vineyard (living on site is even better) using no cultured yeast or ml. Keeping every things so clean you can bottle unfiltered.
Logistics are a huge part of this industry and shared facilities can be harder to sort that out for what is best for your vineyards and style.