How does this work? Vinesquare

So I’ve been looking for a few specific Burgs and got pinged today by Wine-Searcher about one and I got this site.

Never heard or seen this at all. So, I click the link, and it looks like a parcel. When I click the order button, it says 2xbt and a total of 753.18. Am I ordering 2 bottes for a total of 753.18, or is that per bottle?

Any one familiar with them? It looks like some guys super impressive cellar get fed from a cellar management company with prices slapped on.

Hi Ian,

In the case you described above, it would be a per bottle charge. Any item added to the shopping cart would be as a single unit (Bt, Cs, etc…) If you have any more questions, please go to our Help Desk : or contact me directly at:

Hope this helps!

T. Brown
Vinesquare Customer Service

Looked interesting until I saw “no credit cards, bank transfers/checks only”. In other words, you get zero consumer protection on these purchases. Pass…

Ok so I’ve perused the site and they seem to have every burg ever produced. Can someone give an explanation of the business?

I started seeing this operation pop up on Wine-Searcher today too and was pretty shocked to see a rare wine merchant in New York City with this kind of list that I had literally never heard of. However, I suspect there is some affiliation with Fine and Rare Wines in the UK: there are a bunch of oddball items I came across that are only at Vinesquare and F&R, and their formatting–for example, 2Cs, 2xBt, and (Mg) for magnums–is similar.

Tim, welcome to the board, and while you’re here, can you clarify something related to Ian’s question? So, for example, I saw one item that was listed as “10xBt $308.82.” So, if I understand your answer, that means that if I click on “order,” I am buying 10 of these at $308.82 each, for a total of $3,088.20, and there is no option to buy fewer than the 10 on offer?

If there is an award for most confusing website ever - they win!

$1,800+ for 1990 Rayas? Big pass. Stopped bothering to look at that point.

An update - I’ve inquired with a friend at Fine & Rare Wines, who says there is no connection whatsoever between the companies; he assumes that Vinesquare scrapes their website for stock.
In NY a retail license holder must have a storefront / space that’s streetlevel and easily accessible; it doesn’t seem that these guys are in compliance…

For some reason I recall reading that Vinesquare is effectively what used to be Cellarbrokers… not 100% where I got that info or if my memory is serving me well.

they are the once and former cellarbrokers. no stock…scrapers/data aggregators.

to answer your question ian, how does this work? …it doesnt


Hope you are good my man. Thanks for the info.


I got a tip to look at this page, and I am glad that I did. I want to say right now that in no way is Vinesquare connected in any way to Cellarbrokers whatsoever!!! Any person in the NY wine industry can tell you that MAB Fine Wine & Spirits is the new home of Cellarbrokers and has been for at least several years!!! They practically operate under the same name: Cellarhound!!!

Walt: I would appreciate it if you could send me the link to where you “read” that, and I will gladly post the same there.

Nick: It is VISA and MasterCard policy that if we charge you for a bottle of wine then it must be delivered within 2-3 days. We are “complying” with credit card policy by not offering them. We are in accordance with US law by not doing so as well. The consumer protection you receive with standard bank fraud is called the FBI. As a matter of fact, we don’t ask for ANY payment on our site at all!! Just basic info to complete an order.

Jamie: You are correct, a standard NY retail license holder must have a storefront/space that’s street level, etc… However we are not a NY retail merchant, and clearly state that even on Wine-Searcher. We simply have our mailing address there. Because of this, we must charge NY State sales tax. And do, on every invoice that demands it.

I hope I have answered all your questions, and I beg you to ask me more at our Customer Service site:" onclick=";return false; or email me directly at:

I apologize for not seeing these comments before, but I don’t want there to be any confusion whatsoever when it concerns us and them.

Tim Brown
Vinesquare Rare Wine Co.

Umm, I don’t think so. Otherwise every wine retailer and winery that takes an upfront credit card payment for wine futures, wine that is coming in next month, etc. is violating their merchant agreement. While the FBI is awesome, they don’t give me my money back within 5 minutes of a simple phone call if I’m having an irresolvable issue with a merchant, like VISA and MasterCard do.

To quote from Wine Searcher’s profile – “32150 listings now showing for this retailer. On-sells mostly third party wines.” This is why we all see their name when performing searches on Wine Searcher – and their prices are some of the most ridiculous as well.

I listed them on my list of “excluded merchants” on Wine Searcher. Can’t stand this type of merchant.

Nick: Call VISA and ask them yourself. Just as a fun exercise, why don’t you try to call your credit card company to get out of a “sale” with any of those merchants that are holding your money for “futures, etc…” You’ll see how easy it is. Why? Because they haven’t delivered the product. It’s actually quite simple.

VISA: (800) 847-2911
MASTERCARD: (800) 622-7747
AMEX: (800) 528-4800

As for other merchants and their possible violations: you said that, not me.


Tim -

Instead of responding to the criticism, why don’t you explain your business model in more detail? I’m curious, for example, of where your “warehouse” is that your website mentions.

Nothing against this company in particular - just to REMIND EVERYONE:

Rayas didn´t brand the corks with the vintage prior to 1996 … so the only indication of the correct vintage is the triangular small label (which can easily be exchanged).
So if you don´t have the exact proveniance of the bottle I would be extremely (!) careful to buy older Rayas …
(fortunately I purchased mine from 1988 onwards at the Chateau)


When I first posted on here about a month ago, I thought I did that. But if I failed to do so clearly, then I’ll gladly do so here again, and on our site. However I was responding to a thread/conversation that went down a completely different path, and I just needed to quickly address the baseless accusations made against my company Jay, that’s all.

Basically, we work like this:

  1. Order anything you want.
  2. Within 24hrs, we verify the order.
  3. We then invoice you for the order providing you a SPECIFIC date/time of (free) delivery.
  4. You pay for the order, or you don’t. That’s it.

Our shipping will either be from our London exporter, or our NY address.

Tim" onclick=";return false;

My question is your business model – you take an order for a high-end Burgundy, for example. Am I correct in assuming that Vinesquare doesn’t actually OWN the wine simply because it is listed as “available” with a price on your website?

So what happens next? You don’t have to give me names, but you’re charging a premium price because you go out and acquire the wine from a third-party – is that right? I’m not throwing stones, I just want to know how it works?

And if that’s the model, what steps do you make to ensure proper provenance?

And the “warehouse” – I’m assuming that’s website lingo that means something other than “warehouse” to give the reader the impression of a big temperature-controlled building somewhere with thousands of dusty bottles stacked up.