How does Leroy do it?

[Peter_Chiu]

@Kevin Shin

Considering their aggressive pricing, they should be at least at this level. As others stated, DRCs shows terroir where Leroy shows the strong producer signature. I was dining with a couple friends in Bordeaux and the topic of DRC vs Leroy came up, DRC leaves very little reserve and releases at the price that is beyond fair (e.g. VR 1er to the restaurant is around 50 euros, Leroy releases very small quantity and charges an arm and a leg.

(e.g. VR 1er to the restaurant is around 50 euros )

Kevin…DRC - VR 1er at around 50 euros. It should be from vintage 2004. DRC only produced VR 1er in 1930, 1999, 2002, 2004, 2006and 2008. I did not receive any allocation of 1er in 2004.

Meadows said the following : Note that there is no Cuvée Duvault-Blochet in 2005. For 2004, it was decided to limit the production to 4,000 bottles and it will only be sold to the French restaurant trade.

[Peter_Chiu]

@John Tan

@Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow

Are you suggesting that the stems, early on, promote this extreme aromatic quality that is the subject of this thread? Maybe that’s what I’m missing. Does it promote that at first and then turn into a flaw/signature down the hill…I mean road.

Yeah all that DRC must really suck after 20 years

John…Stuart does not buy, own or like to drink any wine from DRC so I was told by him when we were posters in the Other Board long ago . Maybe he change lately - that I do not know, but I doubt it.

[k_s_h_i_n]

@Peter Chiu

@Kevin Shin

Considering their aggressive pricing, they should be at least at this level. As others stated, DRCs shows terroir where Leroy shows the strong producer signature. I was dining with a couple friends in Bordeaux and the topic of DRC vs Leroy came up, DRC leaves very little reserve and releases at the price that is beyond fair (e.g. VR 1er to the restaurant is around 50 euros, Leroy releases very small quantity and charges an arm and a leg.

(e.g. VR 1er to the restaurant is around 50 euros )

Kevin…DRC - VR 1er at around 50 euros. It should be from vintage 2004. DRC only produced VR 1er in 1930, 1999, 2002, 2004, 2006and 2008. I did not receive any allocation of 1er in 2004.

Meadows said the following : Note that there is no Cuvée Duvault-Blochet in 2005. For 2004, it was decided to limit the production to 4,000 bottles and it will only be sold to the French restaurant trade.

Peter,
I was referring to the 08 VR 1er release price to the restaurants in France. The restaurant where the discussion took place had the 08 RC for 3,500 euros which we passed and instead drank the 1er for 180 euros and the La Tache for 850 euros.

[Barry_Rothof]

For me Domaine Leroy is the better producer compared to Domaine de la Romanée-Conti.

Recently the 2004 Domaine Leroy Nuits St. Georges outclassed the 2004 DRC Richebourg.

Release prices for me of Domaine Leroy are unfortunately more expensive, 2009 DRC Vosne-Romanée 1er Cru Cuvée Duvault-Blochet is half the price to 2009 Dom Leroy Vosne-Romanée 1er Cru Les Beaux-monts as an example.

I regret the négociant business Maison Leroy, inferior quality compared to Domaine Leroy & Domaine d’Auvenay bottlings.

[Ian_Dorin]

@Barry Rothof

I regret the négociant business Maison Leroy, inferior quality compared to Domaine Leroy & Domaine d’Auvenay bottlings.

Sad, but true.

[Peter_Chiu]

Kevin…thanks for the clarification. The 08 DRC 1er cru was released in Quebec, Canada for around CA $175.

[Jeremy_Holmes]

Like anything that is top of the class, it is not just one thing that makes the wines great, it is all of the little things that you don’t see that add up to the overall quality of the wine. As you can’t see these little things I can’t comment on them but Leroy is indeed fastidious in their vineyard work. They harvest ripe, concentrated fruit from extraordinarily low yields. They get the best barrels that have been toasted and cured to perfection. They elevage with the utmost of care holding the wines in the cellar for extended periods of time until they deem the wines ready to be released. They pay for high quality glass and cork. Have rigid rules for their distributors regarding shipping and distribution and last but not least they use stems (as do my other two favourite red Burgundy producers DRC and Dujac). Stem inclusion coupled with ripe concentrated fruit gives those beautiful smoky, sappy, floral perfume traits in the wine.

The Leroy wines very much have a cellar signature and I very much like that signature. Given that the Domaine wines have only been made since 1988 and these are extraordinarily concentrated wines, I don’t think we’ve seen too many of their wines reach their full apogee yet and yet most of us agree their wines are consistently somewhere near the top of the Burgundy pecking order.

Cheers
Jeremy

[Mischa_Travers]

One thing to bear in mind is that whatever one thinks of the house style here and the extent to which it allows terroir differences to show through, it’s a style that’s changed quite a bit over the years so broad generalizations are probably not a good idea. To take the easiest example, the Porcheret years from 88-93 were characterized by massive, dense wines that were sometimes (not always) impenetrable to the point of obscuring terroir. Or at least that’s how they’ve showed so far; the jury’s still out on many of these wines and in extreme cases such as the 91 Chambertin and Corton Renardes it may be 20+ years before we can say much about this particular question. But after the transition period of the mid-90s the wines from 98 forward and especially 01 forward are really quite different and I think much better at conveying their respective terroirs. With the more recent examples a producer imprint is still evident but side-by-side, it would be hard to confuse the Porcheret era wines with the 98-present wines – to the point that double blind I think most people, including relatively experienced Burgundy drinkers, would be unlikely to identify examples from the same vineyard (e.g. 91 and 01 VR Beaux Monts) as coming from the same producer.

[Don_Cornwell]

@Tom Blach

Stuart,the stems shine through when young too but they smell ok. As they age they start to smell of silage and dried herbs which to me is not so nice and completely obliterates any notion of terroir-but I think I’m very sensitive to this, and my sample size is not enormous.

Tom:

I can’t help but wonder if you’re talking about the Leroy wines from the 60’s and 70’s vs the current ones? To me the younger Domaine-bottled red wines from Leroy/D’Auvennay exhibit extremely primary blue fruit aromas – blueberry and/or boysenberry – and usually similar flavors. To me, as Ian and others have said, the Leroy wines, especially in their first five to eight years in the bottle, have a strong “producer signature” rather than a terroir signature. In some vintages, the terroir manages to show nicely with time; in others it isn’t apparent (yet.) With the exception of one partially oxidized bottle of 88 Leroy Beaux Monts, I’ve not had any of the Domaine Leroy wines that have exhibited dried herbs aromas or flavors. But I have experienced more than a few Maison Leroy wines from the 50’s through the 80’s that have exhibited those characteristics. The Maison wines have been all over the map. In some cases the wines have been out of this world, like the 55 Chambertin, which is one of the best bottles of red burgundy I’ve ever had. In other instances (e.g. 59 and 64 GE, 62 La Romanee, 69 Ech) I felt completely ripped off and victimized because the wines were absolutely pathetic in quality vs the price I paid.

But the Domaine wines, and the D’Auvennay wines–particularly the grand cru whites, aside from their pricing, and perhaps obscuring the terroir a bit, I can’t fault. I certainly can’t afford to buy Leroy anymore (I stopped altogether after 2004) but I certainly appreciate the beauty of the wines.

[Anthony_Hall]

@Mischa Travers

One thing to bear in mind is that whatever one thinks of the house style here and the extent to which it allows terroir differences to show through, it’s a style that’s changed quite a bit over the years so broad generalizations are probably not a good idea.

Great point. The winemaking signature seems to have changed dramatically in the last few years. The concentrated low yield fruit is the same but the stemmy “soupy” opaque wines of the past seem to be replaced with cleaner more heavily toasted oaked wines.

[Ian_Dorin]

@Mischa Travers

One thing to bear in mind is that whatever one thinks of the house style here and the extent to which it allows terroir differences to show through, it’s a style that’s changed quite a bit over the years so broad generalizations are probably not a good idea. To take the easiest example, the Porcheret years from 88-93 were characterized by massive, dense wines that were sometimes (not always) impenetrable to the point of obscuring terroir. Or at least that’s how they’ve showed so far; the jury’s still out on many of these wines and in extreme cases such as the 91 Chambertin and Corton Renardes it may be 20+ years before we can say much about this particular question. But after the transition period of the mid-90s the wines from 98 forward and especially 01 forward are really quite different and I think much better at conveying their respective terroirs. With the more recent examples a producer imprint is still evident but side-by-side, it would be hard to confuse the Porcheret era wines with the 98-present wines – to the point that double blind I think most people, including relatively experienced Burgundy drinkers, would be unlikely to identify examples from the same vineyard (e.g. 91 and 01 VR Beaux Monts) as coming from the same producer.

Great point, and nice to see you posting

[Berry_Crawford]

There is zero chance Leroy uses concentrators, right?

[Peter_Chiu]

I would say no chance as the yield is so low already.

So far I know only one Burgundy producer owns concentrators.

[Stuart_BeauneHead_Niemtzow]

I’m still not too sure we’ve seen a good answer to the query titling this thread…depending on what “it” is.

Lots of estates do similar things, IMO. It seems that people think Leroy is unique/unusually aromatically “spectacular”. (I have no opinion/knowledge, but am somewhat skeptical that they are “unique” in that regard.)

I guess, if that’s true, like most places, it’s a combination of factors-- and there’s no particular answer to the query.

FWIW, “low yields” can be the result of many things. In the late '90s, I visited one of her vineyards, in Vosne, with a winemaker who had nearby vines. Much of her holding was unplanted, ie, open land. So, then, at least, the yield would have been very low compared to the acreage. But, I doubt this method of “low yields” would have contributed to the concentration. (I think at the time, this vineyard wasn’t unique in how “low yields” were calculated in some of her wines.)

I have to say, if the report initiating this thread is accurate…something-- not necessarily admirable/desirable-- might be going on. But, as I say…I have little knowledge/experience with Leroy wines, as I’ve long considered them poor values…at least for what I value.

[Peter_Chiu]

@Stuart BeauneHead Niemtzow

I’m still not too sure we’ve seen a good answer to the query titling this thread…depending on what “it” is.

Lots of estates do similar things, IMO. It seems that people think Leroy is unique/unusually aromatically “spectacular”. (I have no opinion/knowledge, but am somewhat skeptical that they are “unique” in that regard.)

I guess, if that’s true, like most places, it’s a combination of factors-- and there’s no particular answer to the query.

FWIW, “low yields” can be the result of many things. In the late '90s, I visited one of her vineyards, in Vosne, with a winemaker who had nearby vines. Much of her holding was unplanted, ie, open land. So, then, at least, the yield would have been very low compared to the acreage. But, I doubt this method of “low yields” would have contributed to the concentration. (I think at the time, this vineyard wasn’t unique in how “low yields” were calculated in some of her wines.)

I have to say, if the report initiating this thread is accurate…something-- not necessarily admirable/desirable-- might be going on. But, as I say…I have little knowledge/experience with Leroy wines, as I’ve long considered them poor values…at least for what I value.

Stuart…you have lots of experience with Burgundy and please don’t be too modest. Thank you for your thoughts…

Burgundy is really complex. The more I read, learn and know about them, the more I realize that actually I know less !!!

I will open C. Audoin Marsannay-La Charme aux Prêtres 05 …and see how it will bahave.

[Josh_Najjar]

Although the house style is undoubtedly strong, one whiff off the nose of a Leroy wine - one can become so happy, that one often forgets that fact…

[Roger_Nellans]

@Jeremy Holmes

Like anything that is top of the class, it is not just one thing that makes the wines great, it is all of the little things that you don’t see that add up to the overall quality of the wine. As you can’t see these little things I can’t comment on them but Leroy is indeed fastidious in their vineyard work. They harvest ripe, concentrated fruit from extraordinarily low yields. They get the best barrels that have been toasted and cured to perfection. They elevage with the utmost of care holding the wines in the cellar for extended periods of time until they deem the wines ready to be released. They pay for high quality glass and cork. Have rigid rules for their distributors regarding shipping and distribution and last but not least they use stems (as do my other two favourite red Burgundy producers DRC and Dujac). Stem inclusion coupled with ripe concentrated fruit gives those beautiful smoky, sappy, floral perfume traits in the wine.

The Leroy wines very much have a cellar signature and I very much like that signature. Given that the Domaine wines have only been made since 1988 and these are extraordinarily concentrated wines, I don’t think we’ve seen too many of their wines reach their full apogee yet and yet most of us agree their wines are consistently somewhere near the top of the Burgundy pecking order.

Cheers
Jeremy

Very much agree with your overall assessment Jeremy. No hurry to open up the domaine GC’s. A 90 CV a couple of years ago was very closed up and ungiving initially, however was wonderful the following day. On the other hand, a 90 RSV was singing from the get go and one of the best wines I had last year.

[Roger_Nellans]

@Don Cornwell

@Tom Blach

Stuart,the stems shine through when young too but they smell ok. As they age they start to smell of silage and dried herbs which to me is not so nice and completely obliterates any notion of terroir-but I think I’m very sensitive to this, and my sample size is not enormous.

Tom:

I can’t help but wonder if you’re talking about the Leroy wines from the 60’s and 70’s vs the current ones? To me the younger Domaine-bottled red wines from Leroy/D’Auvennay exhibit extremely primary blue fruit aromas – blueberry and/or boysenberry – and usually similar flavors. To me, as Ian and others have said, the Leroy wines, especially in their first five to eight years in the bottle, have a strong “producer signature” rather than a terroir signature. In some vintages, the terroir manages to show nicely with time; in others it isn’t apparent (yet.) With the exception of one partially oxidized bottle of 88 Leroy Beaux Monts, I’ve not had any of the Domaine Leroy wines that have exhibited dried herbs aromas or flavors. But I have experienced more than a few Maison Leroy wines from the 50’s through the 80’s that have exhibited those characteristics. The Maison wines have been all over the map. In some cases the wines have been out of this world, like the 55 Chambertin, which is one of the best bottles of red burgundy I’ve ever had. In other instances (e.g. 59 and 64 GE, 62 La Romanee, 69 Ech) I felt completely ripped off and victimized because the wines were absolutely pathetic in quality vs the price I paid.

But the Domaine wines, and the D’Auvennay wines–particularly the grand cru whites, aside from their pricing, and perhaps obscuring the terroir a bit, I can’t fault. I certainly can’t afford to buy Leroy anymore (I stopped altogether after 2004) but I certainly appreciate the beauty of the wines.

Don, one domaine wine that exhibits the dried herb and floral aromas is the 90 Gevrey Combottes. I love the wine but there is definitely that component to the wine. Also, regarding the Maison wines, my experience , although limited to 2 bottles, with the 64 GE was outstanding…out of this world good IMO. Guess we got lucky on that one.

[Ian_Dorin]

@Roger Nellans

Also, regarding the Maison wines, my experience , although limited to 2 bottles, with the 64 GE was outstanding…out of this world good IMO. Guess we got lucky on that one.

You are not alone on this one. YUMMY stuff.

[John_Tan]

@Berry Crawford

There is zero chance Leroy uses concentrators, right?

Madame Leroy IS the concentrator…